introducing dogs on terratory
spam...@gmail.com
Canadian wife and our 3 year-old labrador / staff / allsorts female -
Roxy. For a few weeks at least we will be staying with my mother-in-law
who has two Canadian Inuits - one male (5-7 years old) - Boomer, and
one female (11-12 years old) - Matissa. We are concerned about how to
introduce the two females to minimise the chance of a serious fight.
Matissa is alpha in the household and a fairly grumpy old thing. She is
not a particuarly active animal, but on a previous occasion has taken a
chunk out of another dog's ear when he was on her territory. After this
scuffle, the dispute appeared to pass and she allowed the visiting dog
to remain on the territory once she had asserted her dominance. Boomer
is a good-natured animal who is not particularly active most of the
time due to a hormone defficiency.
Roxy is a very active playful dog about the size of a small labrador,
who loves to play with bigger dogs, and will submit to them, although
she may wind them up to play with her. She can be distracted from
almost any dog by waving/throwing a stick.
We will be arriving with Roxy from the airport, and she will
undoubtedly be distressed having been locked up in a crate for 9 or 10
hours. My mother-in-law's home has quite a large house and garden with
outdoor kennels for the dogs, although they are allowed indoors on the
ground floor and sleep inside too. The back garden is fenced off to
keep the dogs in, and the front garden & driveway are not.
The most common suggestion in this situation seems to be that the
animals should be introduced off the territory. Unfortunately I cannot
see how under the circumstances we could do this. We may be able to
take the animals off the grounds to an adjacent field for a walk, but
only on their leads. Roxy often growls at other dogs when she is on her
lead, and certainly would not feel comfortable letting her off the lead
in a strange new place which is not fenced in. It will be dark when we
arrive and there are busy roads in the area.
The tools we have at our disposal are the house, a large fenced-in
garden containing two tethers with long ropes, and a long driveway with
large grassy verges (not fenced). What would be the best possible
solution to introduce these dogs, in particular the two females, within
these restrictions?
diddy
about, would be boarded, if they were mine.
spam...@gmail.com
a price. I've never put my dog in kennels for longer than a few days,
and I'm sure she would be very distressed by being put in one. In truth
we don't know how long it will take to find accommodation so, she could
be caged up for a good number of weeks, by which time she would be in a
pretty terrible state.
It would also be very desirable for these dogs to be able to tolerate
each other as that way Roxy can stay there when we have to go abroad.
spam...@gmail.com
owner - my sister-in-law, who has good dog handling skills, and to whom
Matissa is very obedient. She will be there when we arrive, but not all
the time.
Melinda Shore
<spam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>The tools we have at our disposal are the house, a large fenced-in
>garden containing two tethers with long ropes, and a long driveway with
>large grassy verges (not fenced). What would be the best possible
>solution to introduce these dogs, in particular the two females, within
>these restrictions?
I generally handle it out in the fenced yard. I go out
there with the new dog and give him time for a pee and a
poop, to stretch a bit, and decompress from the trip. Then
I let the old dogs join him. Nobody's on a leash - the dogs
need to be able to do the dog socialization thing without
having their movement hindered. However, the dogs are
heavily supervised and any inappropriate behavior is stopped
immediately. In general I wouldn't leave them alone
unsupervised together. I'd also give some thought right now
to how you're going to handle feeding.
But, you know, Inuit dogs aren't exactly known for their
affability or generosity. I'd have a backup plan (boarding
kennel).
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community.
spam...@gmail.com
That sounds like sensible advice.
Rocky
> I've never put my dog in kennels for longer than a few
> days, and I'm sure she would be very distressed by being
> put in one. In truth we don't know how long it will take to
> find accommodation so, she could be caged up for a good
> number of weeks, by which time she would be in a pretty
> terrible state.
Which city are you moving to? Maybe someone here could
recommend a kennel which wouldn't stress your dog. For
example, I know a couple in my area.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
spam...@gmail.com
TheAmazing...@mail.com
WELCOME To The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Forums.
I'm Jerry Howe, The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
Here's your own FREE COPY of The Simply Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{) : ~ } >
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
spam...@gmail.com wrote:
> I am moving from the UK to Canada in a couple of months
> with my Canadian wife and our 3 year-old labrador / staff /
> allsorts female - Roxy. For a few weeks at least we will be
> staying with my mother-in-law who has two Canadian Inuits -
> one male (5-7 years old) - Boomer, and one female (11-12 years
> old) - Matissa. We are concerned about how to introduce the two
> females to minimise the chance of a serious fight.
ALL aggression is fear. ALL FEAR is CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
> Matissa is alpha in the household
There AIN'T no such thing as alpha. "Alpha" MEANS
the dog who is MOST AFRAID and INSECURE <{); ~ ) >
> and a fairly grumpy old thing.
AS STATED.
> She is not a particuarly active animal, but on a previous
> occasion has taken a chunk out of another dog's ear when
> he was on her territory.
It's UNNATURAL for dogs to display opposite sex aggression.
> After this scuffle, the dispute appeared to pass and she
> allowed the visiting dog to remain on the territory once
> she had asserted her dominance.
DOMINANCE AIN'T GOT NUTHIN TO DO WITH FEAR.
> Boomer is a good-natured animal who is not particularly
> active most of the time due to a hormone defficiency.
PERHAPS THAT'S HOWE COME she attacked an opposite sex dog?
> Roxy is a very active playful dog about the size of a
> small labrador, who loves to play with bigger dogs, and
> will submit to them, although she may wind them up to
> play with her. She can be distracted from almost any dog
> by waving/throwing a stick.
Keep that in mind as you study your own FREE COPY of The
Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual. You can use her stick as a NON PHYSICAL
BRIEF distraction so long as you don't let her take it
in her MHOWETH <{): ~ ) >
> We will be arriving with Roxy from the airport, and she will
> undoubtedly be distressed having been locked up in a crate
> for 9 or 10 hours. My mother-in-law's home has quite a large
> house and garden with outdoor kennels for the dogs, although
> they are allowed indoors on the ground floor and sleep inside
> too. The back garden is fenced off to keep the dogs in, and
> the front garden & driveway are not.
Dogs should NOT be trained in their backyard because it's
their "FREE" area and when trained there, makes them UPSET.
> The most common suggestion in this situation seems to be
> that the animals should be introduced off the territory.
UNLESS you had them all pupperly trained you could then just
walk right in with the new dogs and follow the INSTRUCTIONS
in your own FREE COPY of The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual and work the techniques till
everyWON is RELAXXXED and happy <{): ~ ) >
> Unfortunately I cannot see how under the circumstances we
> could do this. We may be able to take the animals off the
> grounds to an adjacent field for a walk, but only on their
> leads.
NO PROBLEMO. Takes minutes to TRAIN a dog to accept
other dogs or people if you know HOWE to pupperly
handle and train them:
"Ama...@DCFWatch.com" wrote:
No, the dog learned that I would hold still
the second she began to pull. She would pull
to go where *she* wanted.
Well if she wanted to stop and go in another
direction.. say to sniff my neighbors yard..
she learned if she wanted to do it I would stop
walking and she could go.. and if there wasn't
enough slack on her lead she would just pull me.
Then when she got done doing *her* thing, she woudl
heel.. smile at me and wait for me to say "let's go"
and finish *my* thing. I would refuse to move .. i
looked like an idiot.. freezing mid walk for minutes
waiting for *my* dog to heel and give *me* permission
to go again.
I did the treats and the let's go... she got to do her
stuff and get a cookie.. if she even wanted the cookie.
I wound up calling Jerry.. as I have a half red nose
pit and half amstaff.. who is incredibly protective..
we had a new pup on the way.. and i needed help.. i
followed petsmarts trainnign guides.. memorized them...
and they *did* work, don't get me wrong.. but only
when my pet wanted a cookie or felt the cookie was
better than what she wanted.. which was not often.
She quickly learned to ignore my commands if she
could see my hands were empty. So I called Jerry...
he chatted me for about an hour and a half.. gave me
his link... and even when i had probs intro'ing the
pup he called me withn i5 mins of my email for help
at 10pm on a sunday night.
One.. singular.. uno family pack exercise after
the hot and cold exercise and i could zig zag
down my street.. about face .. whatever.. and
never had tension.
two men were acrossed the street and she walked right
by them... ordinarily she'd snarl and protect us.
And in two days.. my dog.. who bit the puppy if he
even looked like he was going near my husband or kids..
is nursing him every hour.. cleaning him.. rough housing
gently.. and teaching him to go potty outside..
actually watches him to make sure he doesn't go in
the house... and has milk.. which is awesome since
she's 19 months old and has never had a litter.
She also has stopped barking non stop at our neighbor's
dogs and pig.. does not bark at eveyr car that drives by
and has stopped jumping on people. she's even starting
to ignore our cat who has lived on her dome litter box
and our window sill (literally) for over a year and a half.
She also does her commands on cue.. and doesn't look for a treat.
-------------
> Roxy often growls at other dogs when she is on her lead,
THAT'S on accHOWENT of MISHANDLING as
taught by the so called EXXXPERTS:
From: lucyaa...@claque.net
Date: 22 May 2005 22:08:53 -0700
Subject: Re: My lab seems to get targeted at the dog park
dinglejingl...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Anyone else have an opinion?
I'm not a trainer and my experience is limited to my
two dogs, so take it for what it's worth. As someone
who had to deal with a puppy who had his own ideas
about what was and what wasn't "proper behavior", I
was very happy to find The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
dog training method.
It is a method that is gentle to the dog, very easy
to apply and it has been working wonderfully with
both my dogs, giving practically instant results.
It was as if I had been given the "key" to understanding
and controlling my puppy's behavior: suddenly, he was
istening to me, doing what I was asking him to do, instead
of constantly opposing me.
It also worked with some issues my older dog had, too -
her fear of thunder, her barking and her aggression
towards another female dog.
Don't let either the first impression about the "weirdness"
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard, or the regulars' negative opinion
of him (there's a long history behind it) deter you from at
least reading the manual and deciding for yourself if you
want to try it or not.
I wish all the best to you and your dog.
Lucy
----------------------
"Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com wrote in message
news:
I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
I do not know what started the problem but he came
aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
ad I took him with me everywhere.
At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
it was not working on his aggression problem.
I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
working as he was becoming more aggressive.
I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.
I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
have the people stop until he could get in control using
treats, and work on clicker training.
At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
would not come when I called him and would run away when
I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women who
hasn't trained her dog"
I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
responsible for him."
*(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)
As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.
The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
I had been working for 18 months!
Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
can sound and he looked at me like uhn?
I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
-the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
on by.
When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
me like "you must be out of your mind"
The results can make a believer!!!
Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
in a busy shopping area with many dogs.
He just seemed to not notice any one.
When people talked to him or ask his name he would
look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.
I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
enjoy life out in public.
If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.
My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!
I know most people would have given up on him a long time
ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
but only with the right approach-sound and praise.
I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!
================================
From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression
Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.
We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!
We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.
He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!
Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.
I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!
I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.
I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-
- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
until I get his attention with treats.
They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.
----------------------------------
> and certainly would not feel comfortable letting
> her off the lead in a strange new place which is not
> fenced in.
You can perimeter train your dogs in
just a few minutes if you know HOWE:
From: Momi...@webtv.net (misty)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:29:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?
Beth wrote:
> So, jerry's techniques didnt' work for Peach?
Never had a chance to try them on her... I was still
using the e-fence and chains to keep her in the yard.
The suggestions I received here to keep Peach home were:
build a fence... wasn't going to happen.. we plan on
putting a modular home here within the next few years...
put more fence at the top of the pen I used so both dogs
could play bitey face w/o tangling, and similar suggestions.
Jerry was the only one to mention border training... but he
was kook supreme ;-P So I ignored him... no killfiles with
webtv.. at that time Jerry had his own troll, somewhat like
Candace, so the group was not very conducive to learning anything.
At one point I even b*tched about Jerry.
By the time I tried out Jerry's manual
Peach had already ran away.
Not very good at the google groups search but you'll find my
first post at "runaway dog message 30" within that thread
is mention of the dogs taking off and being gone for 2 days.
I stopped posting for a bit... my middle boy was devastated
that his dog was gone... Zelda came home but not her mom.
The next few posts from me were ones about/to Jerry.
Then Jerry made the WETM accessible for webbes, I put it
in my e-mail (no storage otherwise on webby unless you put
stuff on a webpage) and read it, read it and read it.
Once I understood what the concept was, I implemented it
on Zelda. It worked and I now have a great housedog!
I only regret that my own distrust of Jerry caused me to
lose another wonderful dog. Peach was an absolute gem with
little kids. I and my boys still miss her. Sometimes I
still look to see if she came home when we get back from trips.
Maybe Peach would still have ran away... I don't know
and never will....
~misty
------------
"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net wrote in message news
16990-3CAB1F8...@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...
I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know she's
not here with us. I really can't blame anyone here for her
loss.
I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because of
how you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the idea
that my using a shock collar could have any bearing on
Peach not wanting to stay home.
Up until I started using it my main concern had been
keeping my dogs in their own yard.
Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my concern
became how to keep them from running off for days on end.
I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in the
anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.
I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world now <g>
A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely housetrained,
doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard, and doesn't bark all
the time.
IOW a great companion and friend.
Thanks Jerry!
---------------
misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6...@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net.
We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two
dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars.
Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come
back in the yard and would run for days.
The last time, Peach didn't come back home.
I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train
my dog. She is now border trained. A few minutes each day
reinforces her desire to stay in the yard.
She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop her from
chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we walk around
the yard.
I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the
e-fence and its collars. If you can't get a regular fence
then you need to train your dog.
I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog
in our yard again.
The price was too high:-( ~misty
--------------------------------
> It will be dark when we arrive and there
> are busy roads in the area.
You wouldn't need to worry abHOWET that if
you had the come command installed as a 100%
reliable comditional reflex.
LIKE THIS:
ballzde...@gmail.com wrote:
> Well I am happy to reply that so far after 10
> minutes of work and the cans from mr Howes guide,
You mean
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual <{); ~ ) >
> I have instilled the "come" command to Riley.
From: "BarbnBeau" <bdea...@cogeco.ca>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 01:52:30 -0500
Re: Puppy Wizard's Website
Hi Buzzsaw
Not a Thing to lose ...But a Lot To Gain!!
I can only speak from my experience.. I have a 8 month
old miniature poodle, and although I had done some basic
training with him we had a few barking issues ..ugh
I am happy to tell you, I contacted Jerry at the email
addy I posted and he was so great! I wasn't following
the technique precisely but he helped me get back on track.
Beau is doing sooooo well it is really a thrill working
with him, and seeing the remarkable changes.
Now I can ask for "recall" (come) both on and off lead
and it is immediate!
the first time I ask.
Best of Luck to you,
Remember if you need help or explanation contact Jerry ..
he will be more than happy to help anyway he can.
Cheers
Barb
l
From: <>
To: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Damned Family Leadership Exercise -
Re: Am I expecting to much
Hi Jerry,
When I talked to you on the phone to order to machine
for daughter's new pup, I told you that I had an older
Chessie. I rescued him at 9 years old and have had
him for 3 years.
It's funny, but I thought I'd try some of your book
training with him. Where I used to say "come" and
then say "good boy" when he obeyed, I have reversed
it with a "good boy" first.
It really does work.
He was very confused at first, wondering what he
had done to get the praise.
But it really gets the attention and distracts him from
whatever he may have going through his brain when
he hears it.
Dogs are funny, but people are too. Can't wait to get
the Doggy do Right, etc.
Thanks,
N
Hi, Jerry.
I'm not sure that I'm a 100% convert, or that I agree
with (or even understand) 100% of what you say in this
manual ... BUT ... we had "come" down pat in a few
reps and you could have knocked me down when I tried
the exercise with "drop" and, after a few reps in
different spots Darwin practically *threw* the rubber
ball at my feet on command. He's still not perfect
(just a pup, after all, and he's stubborn enough to
want to push and test me a little bit more).
For what it's worth, I can see (as no doubt you have)
how your usenet manner is likely to rankle a few
folks, but that woman who advocates ear pulling and
beating with sticks deserves everything she gets. Even
if that was the only method that would work, I'd live
with my dog not fetching rather than do any of that.
(Darwin fetches enthusiastically and instinctively,
tho').
Best, ben
===================
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 9:06 AM
Hello.
I never posted here (or anywhere) before.
I never trained or owned a dog before this
year.
I downloaded the Wit's End, read it, corresponded
with Mr. Howe and trained my dog to come and to
stop barking in a weekend.
Our dog, Jake, had been treated with kindness the
whole time we had him, about 10 months, but his
earlier life is unknown.
I worked on the hot-cold exercise for about 30
minutes when he suddenly "got it". After that
he came to me every time with no hesitation.
I used the cans filled with pennies to teach him
not to bark. If he now starts to bark, I go to the
door or window, say "Good Boy, its' alright" and
he usually calms down right away.
A couple of times I had to get the cans
out again to reinforce the behavior.
We feel a strong bond with this animal
and he is very eager to accept our love.
So with all the vitriolic spewing going on,
I have to believe Mr. Howe is right.
His method worked for us.
I don't know if it would have been quite
as effective if we had tried another method first.
Florence
--------
> The tools we have at our disposal are the house, a
> large fenced-in garden containing two tethers with
> long ropes, and a long driveway with large grassy
> verges (not fenced). What would be the best possible
> solution to introduce these dogs, in particular the
> two females, within these restrictions?
It's ALL in your own FREE COPY of The Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual:
HOWEDY Group,
Here some SUCCESS STORIES ive had using
JERRY'S MANUAL
1) My dogz, two bitches - Vicious, barking, aggressive,
pulled on leash, wanted to kill any dogs they saw, fought
between each other. TWO WEEKS using Jerry's manual,
they were calm, friends, my companions.
2) ADDED A BEAGLE PUPPY (male) to my "PACK", the
girls had -NO PROBLEMS- with him from the moment I
dropped him by their noses.
3) My FRIENDS dogs 2 MALES barking and jumping
at the fence all night 3 DAYS TRAINING WITH JERRY'S
MANUAL they were CALMED AND HAVEN'T BARKED ONCE!
Added a NEW MALE DOG (2 yrs old) AND
WELCOMED HIM WITH NO WUCKAS !
4) POODLE that ATE food from the KITCHEN BENCH -
lock him in a box? NO! USE JERRYS MANUAL! 4 DAYS
AND HES NEVER DONE IT SINCE!
5) ABUSED DOGS AT THE SHELTER I WORK AT -
HAD TO BE FED WITH A BUCKET ON A STICK -
ONE WEEK ON JERRYS MANUAL, THE SUPERVISOR
TOLD ME TO PUT THEM IN THE PUBLIC KENNELS
FOR SALE !
Quite amazing to - I thought they were just dull coloured
dogs, but after I had removed the fear and anxiety their
hairs coloured up amazingly.
6) STAFFY FEMALE who would NOT DROP HER
BALL! She carried it around all day and night - 3
DAYS on jerrys MANUAL and she now DROPS
it when u ASK her to!
BWHWHAHAHAHAAHA !!!!
Nevyn
============
Nevyn writes:
Jerry I cannot even begin to tell you the success Ive
had with your training manual! My two mutts have
gone from out-of-control psychos to obedient well
behaved companions within a matter of weeks!
AND My friends have seen the success and have
asked me to work on their dogs!
I was working with a 5 month old Ridgeback female
today and she was being an angel after like an hour
of working with her!
it is AMAZING!!
I pity those fools who take their dogs to classes where the
"Trainers" abuse their dogs! (do they have a degree? A
masters? a Phd? by the way? NO they are average joes
off the street who think they know how to train dogs!)
Once again, Jerry, you are a genius!
NEVYN and my Dogs, Rizzo and Midget, My Grandparents
dogs, Dusty and Snoopy, and my friends pup, Jazz.
================
Never give out your password or credit card number in an
instant message conversation.
Nevyn says:
hello Jerry.
Jerry says:
HOWEDY Nevyn
Nevyn says:
How are you?
Jerry says:
sup?
Nevyn says:
Oh nothing
Nevyn says:
My dogs are alot better now!
Jerry says:
fine
Jerry says:
tell me
Nevyn says:
I can walk them on or off the leash and they
don't give a #@% about other dogs
Jerry says:
naah
Nevyn says:
I can let them inside and they wont eat the cats
Jerry says:
naah
Nevyn says:
Yup
Jerry says:
what did you do, buy a shock collar?
Nevyn says:
No
Nevyn says:
Praised them
Jerry says:
ahh!
Jerry says:
you think they're 100% better
Nevyn says:
'cept they still bark at the neighbour but only coz
he swears at them and pours water on them
Nevyn says:
nahh they still have stinky breath!
Nevyn says:
muahaha
Jerry says:
ok
Jerry says:
I'll go for that
Jerry says:
it'll take a couple more days to break the neighbor
thing if you're consistent
Jerry says:
then he won't swear and throw water at them
Nevyn says:
yeah but he's only out on the weekends
Jerry says:
but they'll still have stinky breath
Nevyn says:
muahahaha
Jerry says:
you gonna write the group and tell them they're
suckin hind teat?
Nevyn says:
eh
Nevyn says:
nah
Nevyn says:
cant
Nevyn says:
my news server isn't workin
Nevyn says:
how about u just screenshot or copy this chat and post it
Jerry says:
why not.
Nevyn says:
sorry been tryin all day to get on the news server
Jerry says:
you got anything you'd like to tell the dog lovers
who would prefer to see you choke and shock
and lock your dogs in a box?
Jerry says:
I guess you don't want to tell them nuthin that
they don't already know, huh?
Nevyn says:
hah
Nevyn says:
tell them they're fuckers who need to die
Nevyn says:
dogs aren't for abusing they are for loving they love so much
Jerry says:
that's HOWE COME they got me now
Jerry says:
howe much training time did it take for the two of 'em?
Nevyn says:
pfftt
Nevyn says:
it didn't even seem like training
Nevyn says:
its been 24 days since I got your manual
Jerry says:
pfffttt!!!!
Jerry says:
hhahahahaha
Jerry says:
have you got that feeling that they're in tune with
EVERYTHING you're wanting them to do?
Jerry says:
I forgot what city you're in.
Jerry says:
maybe if you're near alphalpha sweeny you can
swing by and LAUGH your ass off at him growling
at his dogs???
Jerry says:
BWWWHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
Nevyn says:
LOL
Nevyn says:
I'm in Perth, Australia!
Nevyn says:
and yes they do seem to be in tune
Nevyn says:
oh!! the other day my dogs went into submissive
position when a tiny little toy poodle came up
barking at them! !LOL
Jerry says:
EXCELLENT!
Nevyn says:
lol
Jerry says:
they knew they didn't need to fight, cause
everything was in your expert control.
Keep up the good work. j;~)
-----------------
From: Nevyn (ali...@wasp.net.au)
Subject: Newsgroups: rec. pets. dogs. behavior
Date: 2002-03-01 03:15:50 PST
Hello
I have two mungrel females; the breeds exactly are Blue Heeler
(spots) x Kelpi (dominant genes) x American Pitbull
(behavioural) x Pug (don't laugh!).
They are gentle loving dogs when I'm at home with them, and
they are friendly with unknown people. They are sisters. One
is obviously dominant over the other, and I don't have a
problem with that, however;
Their behaviour is very odd. Some days they are very good
whilst I'm walking them, some days they are not. They are 3
years old and have only been walking for about 12 months
because my mom didn't walk them and now I'm home so I
walk them for about an hour and half every afternoon. I take
them to the park where they chase birds and swim in the lake.
This is my problem :
The less-dominant dog viscously barks at every other dog we
walk past; I have tried using a stick and giving her a tap
when she does it, and treating her with treats when she
doesn't, using a choke chain, a muzzle and a thing that sprays
stuff in her mouth when she barks.
She won't stop! Does anyone know how I can stop her? ]
Also, the more-dominant dog seems to know this is WRONG,
when the other dog barks, she doesn't bark, but she nips at
the other dog as if telling her to cut it out, and then the
barking one
attacks the more-dominant one and they fight on the leash...
it is quite disturbing to the people walking past.
And also the more-dominant one is okay around other dogs...
SOMETIMES... sometimes she completely ignores them,
and yet other times she will attack them, like yesterday. The
less dominant one I must keep on a leash if a person brings
there dog to the park.
How do I stop them attacking other dogs? I have tried all the
methods I have used above for 10 months every afternoon.
Is it just a pac k-behaviour thing?
It can really be quite embarrassing when your dogs attack some
old lady's or little girl's dog.
They are good dogs, when at home or when there are no other
dogs around. Today there were hundreds of sparrows flying
around the park and they were chasing them and jumping up
trying to catch them for more than 90 minutes (They went
straight to bed when I bought them home!).
Can anyone help me? Email me at my emails
address, ali...@wasp.net.au coz this list is tooo crowded.
Thanks,
Nevyn
=======================
The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
"A cheerful heart is good medicine,
but a crushed spirit dries up the bones".
Proverbs 17:22
Blessed are all who take refuge in HIM.
Jerry 21 And unto this people thou shalt say,
Thus saith the LORD Of DOG;
Behold, I set before you
The Way Of Life,
And
The Way Of Death.
And Disciple Paulie said unto them, Thus shall ye
say to your master, Thus saith The LORD Of DOG,
Be not afraid of the words which thou hast heard,
with which the servants of koehler and university
trained behaviorists and veterinary malpracticioners
have blasphemed me.
Disciple Paulie Sez:
"No One Understands How Wits End Training Really
Works, They Assume It's All Nicey Nicey And don't
Realise It's A Very Disciplined Method That Deals With
Any Situation And The Foundation Is Built On Trust
And Understanding.
I've never forced my dogs to do anything, I tell them
they are good dogs and they seem to follow me, once
I told them they were bad dogs and they ran away from
me, now I only ever tell them they are good dogs and
they always are, always.
Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and say "good
dog" sincerely at the end of the request and I bet you'll
find your dog thinking then responding everytime.
A bit of respect works wonders, the same rule applies
to every aspect of the relationship with your dog.
Obedience and affection are not related, if they were
everyone would have obedient dogs.
I have found giving dogs "payment" in advance i.e. "Sam
sit goodboy" makes the dogs want to respond, after all,
all dogs want to be "good dogs" and if you tell them they
are good then they feel an obligation to obey your request.
Telling Sam he's a good dog AFTER he sit's apart from
been too late is also a gamble because if he doesn't
sit then there's no positive interaction.
Paul
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father,
and the daughter against her mother,
the daughter in law against her mother in law
and the scholar against his professors.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own HOWEshold."
The Puppy Prophet <{); ~ ) >
All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.
Yours,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092
The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?
,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizard. <{YPW) ; ~ } >
oo-oo
AnimalBehaviorForensicSc...@hotmail.com
spam...@gmail.com wrote:
> Thanks.
You mean "thanks diddler" for her NON ADVICE <{): ~ ( >
> Yes, you have a point.
INDEEDY. The POINT is diddler CAN'T TRAIN HER OWN DOGS.
> It's a risk that cold be avoided,
INDEEDY. HOWEver ANY behavior problem that's AVOIDED
IGNORED or REPRESSED will only CHANGE to other seemingly
non related behaviors as anXXXIHOWENESS RELIEF MECHANISMS
or TRAINsfer behaviors <{); ~ ) >
ANY behavior that's PREDICTABLE REPEATABLE or CONSISTENT can
be EXXXTINGUISHED, MODIFIED or PUT ON CUE nearly instantly if
you study and follow the INSTRUCTIONS in your own FREE COPY of
The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual <{); ~ ) >
> but at a price.
INDEEDY:
"diddy" <d...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9554DA8...@216.196.97.142...
> in thread news:cgshq9$u2n$1...@uwm.edu: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu
> (Marshall Dermer) whittled the following words:
> > Sad. Why do we love them so?
>
> Because you will never again in your life
> experience so much honor, nobility, honesty,
> loyalty, and altruistic caring.and true love.
diddy wrote:
I certainly was NOT going to keep him, Nor was
I going to throw him away. I was going to go the
distance and get him back home (we fixed some
other problems while he was here) He's now a
happy and great dog, although I wasn't so fond
of him when he first came, and although we grew
close, the whole experience was not among my
fondest memories, until the end.
I needed to redirect his energies. He used escape for
entertainment. Once I gave him very many jobs to do,
and taught him LOTS of positive job skills to redirect
his energies. Once he found positive alternatives, he
finally forgot his negative behaviors which were severely
entrenched by the time I got him.
The first 6 months were awful for both of us.
------------
All the "awful"-ness was caused by diddy. Just as all
the awfulness of the blood coming out of Reka's rectum
was caused by diddy and her INSANE need to prevent
her dog with "getting away" with anything (such as telling
diddy she was deathly ill).
Only she led you to believe that she was the hero.
Kind2dogs wrote:
> That's fine. I like to hear all different opinions.
> Now about that rescues dog doing such, how
> long was he alone for,to do such destruction?
diddy wrote:
I think 4 hours or so, I had put him in a supposedly
"Secure" place, while I had to leave. When I got
home, he had trashed my house. From then on,
when I left, he got put in the horse stall.
He trashed my horse stall.
He then got a new horse stall, wore a E-collar,
I electrified the perimeter of the stall and we
were finally able to contain him while we worked
on his escape problems.
Once he learned that I was more determined to
defeat him, he finally subdued. But escaping, to
him was a game.
Both of us had a throughly miserable time during
the stand off. The dog is actually now a very good
citizen. He just had to meet someone more determined,
and stubborn and willing to go the distance to do what it
took, before he would stop.
Like I said, I thought he and I were going
to grow old together.
I am not going to go into exactly where we
went before we got that accomplished.
Let's just say it was "ugly"
-------------
> I've never put my dog in kennels for longer than a few days,
> and I'm sure she would be very distressed by being put in one.
Oh? You mean LIKE THIS?:
> Whoops, Danny And Taya run away from
> unsecured yard and imbecile owner.
>
> Will they survive life out in
> the wilderness our amongst the coyote traps?
>
> Will they get mistaken for coyotes and sold
> to the highest bidder at the fur auction?
> Or will they live again to do a help dummy
> diddy do a demonstration on safe and
> responsible pet ownership in the
> kitchen with the vet's office kitten?
>
> Stay tuned, fans...
From: Kathy Levee (kle...@zoo.uvm.edu)
> Subject: Off Topic --MISSING DOGS
> Date: 1999/04/14
>
> I realize this has absolutely nothing to do with
> Disney. Parks, but since those of us on this
> newsgroup are from all over the country, I thought
> you would understand this one time intrusion. We
> are desperate to find these dogs....Please, if you
> have any information, contact the e-mail address
> at the bottom of the note. Thank you for your
> understanding.........
>
> Karyl Parks' (aka diddler) dog Danny - Ch. Alpha's
> Decorum (I think that is his correct registered name) is
> missing . For those that have never met Danny -
> he is very special. Both trained for Search and
> Rescue
You'd think the dog could find his
own way back to his HOWES???
> as well as service dog trained, CDX, etc.
But IT can't find ITS way back to his own HOWES?
> He does all the things that service dogs do
Like run HOWET on his people and not return?
> from opening doors, turning on lights, getting
> clothes and shoes.
You FORGOT MURDERIN the vet's office kitty kat
and escaping and destructively chewing a rug and
gettin locked in a box in an HOWEtbuilding to muffle
his CRYING till he was SHITTIN BLOOD and went in
for intestinal obstruction.
> He is a marvel.
Naaah. You want a MARVEL? Marvel at that
STUPID KAT that PAINICKED when diddler
snared IT in her leg hold STRANGLE / CHOKE
choke trap. She'd have BLUDGEONED IT had
IT not been wearin a collar. Perhaps she was
lookin for a REWARD, bein a SUBSISTANCE
hunter and all.
> He is nine years old but does not
> show his age - he is about 60 pounds 22 1/2
> inches, dark face. By tomorrow I will have a
> picture available.
>
> Monday night he was put out to do his business
> along with Taya another elkie. At 10:00pm - both
> he and Taya were gone from Karyl's yard.
>
> She heard nothing and the gate was open but
> opened inward. Danny was neutered in the last
> year so is not of any use to anyone for breeding.
>
> Karyl has handed out over 1,200 flyers today -
> gone to the schools where Danny was well
> known - he did demonstrations, talked to
> neighbors and combed the neighborhood.
>
> She lives in farm
> country outside Greenville, Ohio.
>
> Danny is a tall elkie - very handsome -
> microchipped. I am looking for a picture I took
> when he visited here two years ago. He was not
> wearing a collar when lost. Karyl will talk to
> postal workers, garbage truck drivers, county
> road crews, meter readers, tomorrow - has
> already contacted law enforcement and shelters.
>
> Please for anyone in the area or who can cross
> post this to other lists do it. This dog is Karyl's
> life and she can not imagine life without him.
>
> Taya - also an elkhound her parents dog - spayed
> female five years old. Small size - I think only
> about 18 inches. They could be together or
> separate - Taya did have a collar on. Do not
> know if she is microchipped.
>
> Karyl's email is kpa...@bright.net
>
> Thank you for your understanding......we're
> posting this to every list we are involved with
> and pray for their safe return.
Ummm, better RETHINK THAT. Your PAL diddler
is a Satanist or somethin weird like that.
> Kathy
>
> =================================
> In truth we don't know how long it will take to find
> accommodation so, she could be caged up for a good
> number of weeks, by which time she would be in a
> pretty terrible state.
Took diddler WON YEAR to HOWEtwit his shock fence:
diddy wrote:
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> We have a beagle. Before we got our last one, we
> knew what to expect and spent a year re-enforcing the fence.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> What we did.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> Double fencing, hardware cloth lined on the inside.
> Wood ties under gates. A chicken wire apron extending
> out into the yard 12 inches. (hog ringed to the upright
> fencing). We chose chicken wire because it was flexible
> and ground conforming. grass grows right over it, making
> it invisible and easy to mow over. It's tacked down by tent
> stakes every 10 inches. (this is our most considerable
> investment)
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> The problems with it is that it eventually disintegrates,
> rusts, pulls apart and need repair a lot. We placed tile
> blocks over the top, because the tent stakes stick up,
> and sometimes get hit by the lawnmower.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> Overall, it's a pretty decent system and works
> MOST of the time.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> The beagle is persistent, and tends to work the inner
> fencing, that's flimsy down, or tear it, making exit holes.
> We recently cut down a couple yard trees that broke down
> sections of the fence and they need re-enforcement.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> When the weather breaks, a whole new fence
> is in order, but the system works MOST of the time.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> We did install an underground perimeter E-fence
> at the fence line, and found a single strand 12 inch
> high electric cattle fence around the perimeter was
> just as effective, cheaper, less bothersome (no need
> to wear heavy e-collars.. especially that mess up coats),
> but both needed occassional maintenence.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> What we did.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> I admit our system fails occassionally, especially
> when snow drifts are over the top of the fences
> and erase any identifiable fenceline.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> We installed (BEFORE getting the beagle) a 100
> foot trolly line that crosses the yard.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> This is a safe, effective restraint system that has
> always worked when immediate repairs or extra
> security is desired.
>
> If I go away and leave the beagle outside. He goes
> to the trolly line, whether the containment system
> is currently working or not.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> It's great for emergency situations, and the $17
> last resort system gets used for the beagle far
> more than I ever expected. It still allows reasonable
> exercise range of area and mobility. The elkhounds
> and the beagle still play avidly, and it's the cheapest
> piece of mind security ever.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> A trolly tether system is the best for temporary
> containment while discovering where the leak
> is. In the snow, it's easy to discover the
> leak. In the summer, it's more difficult.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> I do not like, or use our current underground collar system
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
---------------
> It would also be very desirable for these dogs
> to be able to tolerate each other as that way
> Roxy can stay there when we have to go abroad.
Oh? You mean LIKE THIS?:
MOORE FUN W/DIDDY and what DANNY and TAYA (with heelp from
TOBY) did with the Vet's OFFICE KITTEN after they got home
from RUNNING AWAY.
From: diddy (d...@nospam.diddy.net)
Subject: Re: What would you do in this situation?
Date: 2002-05-31 14:49:22 PST
Actually, I borrowed the vets office kitten once for a
couple days for school education on pet care and safe
handling as well as responsible pet ownership.
I kept the kitten over night in a crate within a crate
and yet my dog (yes, Angelic Danny, as well as Taya
and Toby tore that kittne to threads from between the
crate bars. (apparently he stuck his paws through the
crate to bat at the dogs. I was out doing yard work
and rushed in to find the little kittens pieces and
parts being torn through by ALL the dogs.
I called my girl friend to come get my dogs. I screamed
displeasure, and stalked out with the kitten. Danny, et
al spent 3 days in a kennel until I finally felt like I
could interact with them without doing bodily harm. All
three dogs were never touched, but knew they had done
something so unspeakable that I wouldn't associate with
them and they got banished.
To this day, Taya (mom and Dad's dog) and Danny will not
look at a cat. When confronted with one, Danny wees
himself and cowers hiding behind me for help. I'm not
saying this would work this way with all dogs, But mom
and dad now have a house cat, and she has never been
harmed by any of the dogs. Danny is there all the time,
unsupervised, and has no interest in harming the cat.
----------------------------------------------
> diddy wrote:
> > Since this is only a temporary situation, any dog
> > that I had concerns about, would be boarded, if
> > they were mine.
OtheWIZE you could lock IT in a HOWEtside shed to
muffle ITS cries till IT was HAPPY again. LIKE THIS:
diddy (d...@nospam.diddy.net)
Subject: Oh My God
Date: 2002-01-16 13:39:59 PST
Two nights ago, Reka started acting frantic about 11pm.
I let her out. It's coyote breeding season, and she is
fascinated by them. I assumed she wanted to go out and
listen to them howling. I brought her in, and she spent
the night franticly and desperately demanding to go out.
After about 4am, I finally put her in the barn, locked
securely in a horse stall for the night.
She came in by morning, and had a normal active, playful
day. Last night, at 11pm, She franticly DEMANDED to go
out. I let her out, and brought her in. At midnight, she
DEMANDED to be let out. I let her out, but I went out
to the barn and got a crate, and decided she could
spend the rest of the night in the crate. We were NOT
going to do a repeat of the previous night AGAIN.
At 3am, she whined so loudly, I then decided not to
allow her to set a precedence of this type of behavior.
So I took her crate out to the heated gun shop and
decided to let her act out her bad behavior in peace,
and send a message that her obnoxious behavior
was not going to be tolerated.
This morning at 6am, I went out, and she had vomited
(normal looking dog food) and defecated in her crate
(not normal for Reka, but then, She normally didn't
sleep in a crate, NEVER gets corrected (she never does
anything to GET corrected for) and was probably nerves
from the outside experience, plus reprimand and solitary
confinement.)
I let her in the house while I cleaned the cage. Hoping
I had made my point. She acted healthy and normal, and
playful and chipper. But then I noticed a spot of blood on
the bathroom linoleum and in the bathtub. I was the last to
take a bath, so I knew REKA was the last in the tub.
That blood didnt come from me, so it HAD to come from
Reka. Thinking about her nearing the end of her heat cycle,
I still didnt think a lot about it. I thought her obnoxious
behavior the past couple nights WAS her heat cycle..
and corresponding coyote breeding season.
Then while feeding her breakfast, I saw the whole story.
She had blood (fresh) streaming from her RECTUM. UhOh.
I had her at the vets office this morning before he
opened. He just said her intestines were all bunched
up with huge air pockets.
Was there any chance that she ate strings of carpets? I
said, last Thursday we took a plastic tarp out of the yard
that we had over the grill to protect it from the weather
because she was chewing it. That would explain
EVERYTHING.
The strings are binding and bunching up her intestines,
cutting her internally and tying her intestines in knots as
it works its way through.
Reka is in a very critical situation. She is going to
require extensive and expensive surgery that I cant
afford. I will manage.
Even with the surgery, her condition will be critical
for awhile. Scary thoughts. I would never have
treated her the way I did last night, if I had even a
clue that she was sick. I feel so badly.
--
diddy
===============================
Of curse, to unwind you could go HOWET shootin your
neighbor's dog for eatin garbage or murder his kat
for walkin abHOWET harmlessly. LIKE THIS:
"My Husband Shot A Dog That Had Been Tearing Up Trash
Up And Down Our Road For Years Making An Unbelievable
Mess. When We Finally Killed The Culprit, The Whole Road
Cheered," diddler.
From: diddy (d...@diddy.net)
Subject: Re: Dog Shot, Neighbor Charged, Anchorage AK
Date: 2002-11-08 07:00:27 PST
I guess if I felt Danny was threatened, it's the way
I would react. There would be none left standing
to deal with the threat just in case.
If someone hurt him, I would not let borders or
continents stop me from pursuing justice.
Then again, I always feed Danny INSIDE. If
someone is feeding his dog outside, his own
dog might not mean THAT much to him.
If he was feeding his dog outside though, many
dogs are food aggressive, and that could most
certainly spark a dog aggression thing.
(and if the dog was penned quietly outside, what
was it doing in his yard?)
I shot a neighbors dog one night for chasing my
horses and called him to help me find it. I would
do the same for threatening my dog.
My husband shot a dog that had been tearing up
trash up and down our road for years making an
unbelievable mess.
When we finally killed the culprit, the whole road
cheered. Animal control had never been able in
years to catch this critter. (we think it was feral it
was certainly unkempt enough to have been....
and it had been shot at by MANY of the neighbors,
but it never frightened it off enough to keep it from
NOT tearing up the road the next trash day)
---------------------------------
DIDDY AND THE DOBERMAN WHO BLED TOO MUCH for her OWN GOOD
> It's explained on the AKC website. And I'm very sorry to
> hear this. I too had a dog that I wanted to finish
Oh, here's one you finished alrighty, you finished her real
good because she made you late for work after you cut her
ears off.
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 13:03:37 -0400
From: diddy <d...@nospam.diddy.net>
Organization: bright.net Ohio
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Patch wrote:
> There is a detailed explanation of the pain side of things
> in the report I mentioned to Lone. If I can get the new
> lead for my scanner [hopefully today], would you like me to
> e-mail it to you so you have the veterinary view of it ?
......
I someone crops ears, I feel it's for hygenic methods
as well as aesthetics. I'm not saying cropping is not
painful, taking two dobermans through cropping (one with
von Willebrawns.. and THAT was ugly -- and I finally put her
to sleep at one year old because I kept coming home from
work finding my house in a bloodbath every time I came home
from work, and was told I was going to get fired for
absentee if I continued to miss work in the afternoons after
coming home for lunch, and having to run the dog to the vet.
The mental stress of dealing with such a dog was unreal,
dealing with the unknowns of what she was going to do next
(tear a nail, puncture herself, bruise herself.. the
emergencies she created for herself were unreal)She also
kept catchingher dew claws on things, and I finally had them
removed.
---------------------------------------------------------
WHEN YOU CAN'T FIND ANY CATS TO SHOOT, SHOOT
HUNGRY DOGS INSTEAD FOR GETTING IN THE GARBAGE
-
DIDDY ON CATS (shoot, don't trap)
From: diddy (d...@nospam.diddy.net)
Subject: Re: Fur Auction Ohio State Trappers Association
Xenia Ohio Feb 15 2002
Newsgroups: alt. animals. furtrapping
Date: 2002-02-16 12:06:21 PST
If I can get him away from the Olympics, I'll have him
answer that. He doesn't know how to change the identity on
the computer, so if "I" answer this post... it's really
Jeff. And no.... we went to watch. He sold nothing. btw..
are these "CATS" feral domestic cats? (sorry not familiar
with Oklahoma) (I just shoot the DSH cats. Jeff caught a
couple cats last summer while nuisance trapping an orchard,
but it wasn't intentional)
--
diddy
BUT IF YOU DO TRAP, DO IT RIGHT (The cat went nuts....
they weren't supposed to go ape, to get themselves in
this situation).
"I run a state authorized and monitored nuisance
animal trapline. This morning there was a cat in a snare.
Ordinarily, an animal caught in a snare can be released
unharmed. One of the animals I am targeting is coyotes
(and the complaint was that coyotes were killing area cats)
Duh.. If your cats are becoming lunch for wild animals, to
me .. It makes sense to keep your cats in where they can't
become lunch.. whatever.
Regarding this cat in the snare. It went nuts. It leaped,
and tangled itself, and most certainly strangulated it's
intestines. It had the snare pulled tight down to the
diameter of a dime (just large enough to encircle the
spine) around the waist area. This cats snarled, and
attacked. Trying to extricate this cat was exceedingly
difficult, not to mention dangerous. Because I feared
damage to the intestines and death of the gut, I imagined
this cat was not likely to survive.
It would have been much simpler to dispatch the
unfortunate cat and take out the dead body. Instead,
this cat wore a collar. it deserved a chance, and the
owner deserved closure. (no id on the collar) . It
escaped, just as I released it and it couldn't be taken
to the vet for examination. I will probably never know
if this particular cat survives the experience or not.
Had that cat not been wearing a collar, I would not have
tried to release this hostile cat. Releasing it may not have
been a kindness, but then... cats weren't supposed to be
attracted to this type of trap, in this position, and then
they weren't supposed to go ape, to get themselves in this
situation. If you like your pet, you keep them home."
-------------
Of curse, you might wanna learn some advanced
trainin skills pryor to just goin off like that:
HOWEDY diddler,
"diddy" <d...@diddy.net> wrote in message
news:3DFE2573...@diddy.net...
> diddy wrote:
> > a precocious lurker wrote:
> > > diddy wrote:
> > > >I don't think under the circumstances described, Leah
> > > > is NOT guilty of theft. Deception, possibly.. but
> > > > that's really iffy. She has broken no laws. Her
> > > > behavior has not fullfilled an ethical or moral
> > > > standard as would be expected from a professional
> > > > trainer.
> > > And when you shot the neighbor's dog, you did so to
> > > avoid the moral dilemma which Leah is being raked over
> > > the coals for? You know, you could have took the dog in
> > > and fed him, loved him, trained him and dewormed him,
> > > like leah has done. And your horses would have been
> > > safe.
> > > But apparently, instead, you did the right thing...
> > > and shot him.
> > Fuck OFF MIKEY
> Excuse me Mikey, I just traced this.
Did you now, diddler? Kinda like huntin, ain't it?
> Fuck OFF JERRY! *PLONK*
Sorry diddler, you got me wrong, just like you did
all them kats and your dog shittin blood, diddler.
You can't shoot strangle leghold trap or track straight.
HOWEDY diddler,
d...@diddy.net (diddy) wrote in
<3DFD2FC9.F7120...@diddy.net>:
> Wayne wrote:
>> Just curious if these methods are still encouraged;
koehler is recommended by our professor SCRUFF SHAKE
when the dog is too big and too dangerous to scruff shake
noMOORE.
> > I personally could never do it.
Most of our experts are devout koehler fans.
HOWEver, they'll deny they use the painful parts. koehler
warns against that, sez that's HOWE COME people got
to kill their dogs, cause they don't follow the method
EXACTLY. Just like HOWE it sez in your FREE copy
of my FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual.
Only difference is, koehler sez you can't STOP hurting,
your FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual sez
you can't even scream NO or scruff shake your dog.
>> Wayne
>There are still some old advocates,
You mean all our expert advisors here on
our dog forums, diddler.
> mostly in the law enforcement and security dog world.
Not noMOORE, diddler.
> This method separates the squeamish and soft dogs
Is that so, diddler? What's a SOFT dog, diddler? I never
heard of a soft dog. Are you talkin soft like fat assed and
lazy, like our experts here? Or are you talkin soft like in
out of shape MENTALLY?
Or do you mean to say dogs that can't take a lot of BEATIN?
> (something that is detrimental in LE)
Is that so, diddler? You mean dogs in security and police and
military work should LIKE being BEATEN? Is that DESIRABLE?
> from those hard dogs that let anything bounce off them
Anything, diddler? You mean like BULLETS? Or do you mean
like TRAINING STICKS and SHOCKING and CHOKING, diddler?
Are you talking about a dog that don't MIND being choked and
shocked and beaten and hung? Is that what you mean by hard
Vs soft dogs, diddler?
> as if it never happened.
Yeah. It never happened, diddler. NOBODY here hurts dogs.
Ask matty. Ask Binaca bethFIST. Ask janet boss. Ask Master
Of Deception blankman and melanie and leah and liea and
professor scruff shake?
> I would hope those training for pet use would not find his
> methods of the 1930's and 40's still logical.
Well, well, well, diddler. I guess you must be a newbie here.
Either that, or you're one of the LYING DOG ABUSING THUG
COWARDS we got here who hurts and kills dogs and LIES
about it, diddler? Naaah. Not YOU. You're even on our kat
forums.
> I shudder reading them,
Do you now, diddler? Some of us CRINGE.
> and thank forward moving trainers for moving us out of the
> dark ages.
Oh, indeedy, diddler. Thank you for supporting pain fear
intimidation and death.
> You would think he hates dogs.
Naah. He's a professional dog trainer, diddler. Most of our
dog lovers here swear by their koehler method for the really
tough dogs. The ones that LIKE to be beaten and HUNG.
Meanwhile, the heel with koehler diddler, we got a worse
scumbag to identify and expose. That be YOU!
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
AnimalBehaviorForensicSc...@hotmail.com
SHAAAZZZAAAMMM???
Hey matty? Don't you BOARD dogs for a livin???
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
Perhaps spam.rick will board his dogs with you?:
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"dallygirl" <kwic...@hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
> causing more harm than good.
Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.
It's a good thing that most of us are here because of dogs'
well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
"Reliable Punishment Cycles, Different Thresholds To Pain
And Punishment, High Tolerance For Correction, Escalation
Of Correction To A Level Where The Dog Yelps When You Punish
Him, Thus Making The Experience One Which The Dog Will Want
To Avoid In The Future," grant teeboon, RAAF.
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
On 6 Feb 2006 17:41:08 GMT, Mary Healey <mhhe...@iastate.edu>,
clicked their heels and said:
> Does that include tone of voice? Some tools are easier
> to ban than others.
yes - screaming banshees are told to shut up! And I
always have to remind spouses that they may NOT do the
"honey - you're supposed to be doing it like THIS"......
--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album
lying frosty dahl, oakhill kennels wrote:
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.
When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished
If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"
(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.
terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."
THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?
Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what would
> > be the point? Where I come from, choking is choking.
> > It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
Deltones wrote:
>
> Rocky wrote:
>
> > "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com>
>
> > > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > > is choking. It's never limited.
Not so in PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING, Deltones.
> > So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> > Thank you for your contribution.
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
Looks like you've pushed the mental cases over the edge again...
> Well, I think you carefully avoided quoting the last part of my post.
> You know the one about a bunch of little Colonel Parker doing Elvis's
> out of their dogs? Oh right, limited choking is not abuse, and pumping
> dogs full of drugs to make them behave ain't either in your world huh?
> For the benefit of our gentle readers, here's the part you forgot to
> quote:
?
> Oh, what the hell. Check out a thread started around Nov 23 called
> "Help with a Nuerotic Hound..." where I wonder if you guys are talking
> about dogs or Woody Allen's pharmacy. I'll stick with praises and noise
> distraction to train my dog, thank you.
>
> ----------
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to
it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.-
if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar," Lynn K.
"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.
<except when it is>
"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.
<except when it is>
"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation." Lynn K.
--------------------
"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.
And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.
Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."
Lynn K.
----------------
From: "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com>
Date: 2 Dec 2005 10:55:41 -0800
Subject: Re: In defense of Jerry Howe's methods
Mary Healey wrote:
> I'm still asking for 5 original posts from people here at least 5
> years to support your initial contention (NOT HURTING DOGS TO TRAIN
THEM). You're 0 for 2, so far.
That's 2 in 2 as far as I'm concerned but hey, if you insist. I'm
really curious to see what will be the justification this time. So far
we have:
Limited choking? Hey, it's limited, As
Neo would say: Woah, there is no choke.
Dogs pumped full of prozac? Hey, they're trippin
man. Remember Woodstock. Euh.... Woodwhat?
E-Collar? I'm sure some of you will come up with: But my
dog look so pretty with an electrified perm. Swoooon.
So on with the fun. Taken from the "Collars" thread,
started by Perry Templeton June 20 2005
Denis
------------
On 26 Jun 2005 10:52:42 -0700, lucyaa...@claque.net, wrote:
> What does the "choke" in the "choke chain" stand for, then?
> Lucy
one reason I call them slip collars. Their is a correction involved,
and while it causes momentary discomfort, does not choke the dog.
OTOH, it is CAPABLE fo being used to do that, should a situation
warrant it.
--
Janet B
----------
And here's another one from the same author,
taken from the same thread.
---------
167. Janet B
Jun 21, 12:03 pm show options
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:40:11 +0100, "Alison"
<Ali...@XYZallofus2.fsnet.co.uk>, wrote:
> I'm just wondering why you had to use choke chains to train"your
> dogs especially as they are so small.
Oh geez - let's see - how many JRTs act like alligators at the end of
a leash? I personally prefer prong collars.
----------
Let's go for the hat trick with the same author, taken from the same
thread:
----------
141. Janet B
Jun 27, 10:01 pm
I don't use choke chains. Not quite true - I use a jeweler's hex link
on Franklin at times - it's puuuuuurty. I know the "sound" thing
and all, and when training a dog in a non-group setting, that sound
may be a factor, but I think it fails in the context of a group class.
So, I prefer the better fitting nylon slip collars, and very often,
pinch collars (small link unless it's a freaky dog, then they need
the milder medium link).
But I use e-collars too. With one of my dogs and with some clients.
For circumstances where a physical collar and leash is not the right
answer. I'm sure Lucy has no clue what THAT means!
--
Janet B
----------
HOWEDY janet,
Looks like you and your pals have gone totally INSANE again:
Janet B wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 14:44:14 -0500, Janet B
> <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>, clicked their heels and said:
> > Since you quoted me repeatedly, where does it say I beat dogs, choke
> > dogs, scream at dogs, etc? Thanks for your clarification.
.
> responding to my own post, I had to go back and look at the original
> post, to remind myself what "we" are all accused of doing:
>
> "screaming, choking, shocking, pinching, beating the living crap
> out of your dogs"
>
> Scream? no
>
> Choke? no
>
> Shock? e-collars are a lot more sophisticated than that
>
> Pinch? if you want to classify a momentary discomfort by a prong
> collar, go ahead, but unless you have first hand experience with
> one, your opinion means nothing
>
> Beat the living crap out of? hardly - no hitting exists
"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.
"BethF" <b...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com>
wrote in message
news:v4r8kkf...@corp.supernews.com...
Kyle, FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
and i often call my little dog the turd, because
he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
matter of personality.
Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
step on him once. Seriously.
"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That
Interested In Praise."
"BethF" <d...@alaska.com> wrote in message
news:uohnj3r...@corp.supernews.com...
Maybe that's what we should do - hold back the dobie
girl so that Izzy can put Simon in his place.
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars
Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63...@4ax.com...
Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.
The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.
What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.
I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.
I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.
Sally Hennessey
"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv...@4ax.com...
Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.
I'm starting to see some similarities here.
Sally Hennessey
"Janet Boss offered a pat on the back, commenting that
ultimately it wasn't Kate's decision. Whose was it? I asked.
Why, it was Teena's, averred Janet.
Janet was in an exculpatory frame of mind because she
contributed to this travesty herself, by advising Kate to
repeat the aggression trigger (grooming) on a daily basis.
It's all in the archives.
Now these two are spouting off about what kind of e-collars
they like to use on their dogs. Well, I've got an AC Delco
model that would be just right for Janet or Kate. BZZZZzzt!
I'd have to find it though, and I can't remember if I left
it in my underground bunker or the crawlspace under my
house," Charlie.
Here's janet's PARTNER:
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
sinofabitch writes:
> > What I have said- repeatedly - is that he
> > took posts from two different people,
> > took pieces of them out of context,
Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?
> > cobbled them together,
No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.
> > then added his own words:
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
> > and a fake signature.
"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
> > Which is exactly what he did.
INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.
> > The actual quote is misleading
That so?
> > when taken out of context,
We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...
> > and Jerry's faked "quote"
The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.
> > is downright meaningless.
Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.
Here's Jerry's version
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
Here's yours:
"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
See?
"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1...@uwm.edu...
> Di,
> I don't believe you mentioned a particular kind of
> training. If you are interested in training retrieval
> behavior than do consider our own Amy Dahl's:
> The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a Well-
> Mannered, Obedient and Enthusiastic Gun Dog
> in 10 Minutes a Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl
You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog
I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Circumstance
Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But
Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want
to choke or beat a dog, or how any trainer could
possibly get a good working dog by making them
unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
frosty dahl.
> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the few
> regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
> ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall
amy lying frosty dahl continues:
"On the other extreme, the really ard dogs
we have trained require much more frequent
and heavy application of pressure (PAIN j.h.)
to get the job done,
This is continued resistance to your increasing
authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.
When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished
If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"
(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.
terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."
lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...
Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should
knee the dog in the chest, step on its toes, throw
him down by his ears and climb all over it like a
raped ape growling into his throat and bite IT on
his ears, or leash pop it on a pronged spiked pinch
choke collar or pop him in the snout with the heel
of your palm.
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.
You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for
her coment above regarding her success with
The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy Separation
Anxiety / Bed Time Calming / Submissive
Urination Technique (STSA/BTC/SUT)?
Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z,
who commented that his bed time calming technique
was quite similar?
> > You're scary Marilyn.
> > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed individual.
> > I feel very sorry for her and her family.
"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"dallygirl" <kwic...@hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
> causing more harm than good.
Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.
It's a good thing that most of us are here because of dogs'
well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will
Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe.
This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times
It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer.
"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,
This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome
"You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.
When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished
This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome"
If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
under the chin, say "No! Hold!"
(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
because the ear is getting tender, or the
dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
frosty dahl.
You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies HURT all
their lives like HOWE HOWER dog lovers PREFER to
HURT THEIR DOGS?
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL.
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
"When you get bagged for lying you're MARKED
FOR LIFE," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{); ~ ) >
BWEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
From: Mark Shaw (m...@bangnetcom.com)
Subject: Re: Fido-Shock
Date: 2002-04-10 14:12:18 PST
In article <gWLs8.203228$af7.101030@rwcrnsc53>,
"Coleman Brumley" <clbrum...@home.com> wrote:
> Has anyone had experience with this product (Fido-
> Shock). If so, what model number, voltage, etc.?
If you're talking about the pet-grade hotwire system,
I have one. It's to keep boarded dogs out of my flowers.
> I have a 1.5 year St Bernard who is scaling (not clearing --
> more like falling over) our 4 foot fence to visit with owners
> walking their dogs. I thought of raising the fence a foot or
> so, but don't think that'll solve the problem. I've tried
> watching her outside, and give a stern "NO" when she
> props on the fence for a peek over it. No avail.
> I've heard this product works after just a couple of tries.
I take it you're considering running the wire across the top
of the fence? I don't think I'd recommend that, although it
may be worth a try. Watch closely -- the one case where I saw
a hotwire used in this fashion caused the dog undue stress and
frustration, and he tried even harder to get over the fence.
So be prepared to take it down right away.
That was a Dane, though. With a Saint things might be
different.
--
Mark Shaw
culprit's dogs MURDERED her kat for
standin behind their SHOCK FENCE
just like HOWE liea's dog attacked
her only friend and tried to attack two
little kids for standin in her SHOCK ZONE:
From: culprit (culp...@flashmail.com)
Subject: Re: Video clip......."Nero" practicing
bark alert, while walking backwards
Date: 2004-06-05 18:53:50 PST
"micha el" <spam_yurs...@spamyourmamma.com>
wrote in message news:yIydnZpPsIz...@comcast.com...
> Anyway, contrary to your PR, this is what
> it felt like to me when I got shocked by
> Hope's collar.
> It felt like a bomb going off in my
> hand and forearm.
--------------------------------
"Tricia9999" <tricia9...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021117101433...@mb-cg.aol.com...
>> how effective are these electronic fences in
>> keeping a dog on a property????
Some run through it. Others get shocked and become
too scared to go out in the yard anymore.
Just heard of a guy that has to rehome his dog,
because the dog got caught right in the path of
the shock and will now not go near his person,
won't go outside.
Just hides under a desk in the house.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!
"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.
"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll
state my opinion once and won't defend it further:
any method can be cruel for some dogs.
Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at
the beginning, but we've come a long way since then.
She trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.
Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.
Is it time for that?
What might I look for to tell?"
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@comcast.net>
wrote in message news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...
After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
and the vet agrees.
--Lia
"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help.
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusMed.WMV
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusSmall.WMV"
THAT'S AN OCD. His owner CAUSED IT by
MISHANDLING and ABUSING his dog according
to the BEST advice of HOWER Gang Of Lying
Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and
ASYLUM ESCAPEES.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!
In this video, the dog is constantly jerking his
head all around. I'm not SHORE why he's doing that.
If he's doing it because he is being shocked repeatedly
into getting onto that skateboard, then it is my
opinion that Fred Hassen is a dog abuser in the
extreme. As would anyone be, no matter how much
"experience" they had shocking dogs, nor how
nationally "respected" they are/were.
If, HOWEver, the dog is jerking his head all around
because he is happy and for no other reason, well,
then, never mind. I've just never seen this kind of
behavior from a dog before, so maybe Fred can
explain what would cause a dog to move his head
like that.
Here's a other:
http://tinyurl.com/2v9oh
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
>
>
On 6 Feb 2006 01:19:16 -0800,
"dallygirl" <kwic...@hotmail.com>, clicked their heels and said:
> janet, yes unfortunatly i have. i joined a mother and daughter duo
> training group and i am still kicking my arse over it :( i have since
> learnt (and anyone new to dogs please take note!) they have no
> qualifications only their own experience.
What exactly does that mean?
> its because of them i am busting a gut to get qualified and to join the apdt.
"credentials" only mean something if the issuing organization is
recognized as THE authority. The American Medical Association, The
American Bar Association - things like that. There is no "whatever"
dog association that licenses dog trainers.
> i saw a massive negative difference in my dogs behaviour when on the
> lead and i didnt yank or pull i never would no matter what the
> 'trainers' said.
What exactly were you doing with the lead that caused a negative
behavior? Do you not use a lead when training? Not on city streets?
> i guess i was as distressed as my dog.
I'm pretty sure you are the only one who was distressed and you
transmitted that to your dog.
> i took a dog out of this real nasty hell hole. the lady had set her
> self up as a rescue then had about 20 dogs running free in her back
> garden and it broke down to chaos.i took out a young lab female who
> was so scared she wouldnt climb into my car and i wasnt going to force
> her so i just sat next to her but on my tail gate. the 'rescue' woman
> growled and grabbed the dog at the back of the neck and a lump of flesh
> at the rump and threw her into my car.
What on earth does that have to do with properly using a variety of
training tools? So far, you've equated using choke collars with
people who enjoy drop-kicking dogs.
>with ppl such as this working with dogs i want to show a 'better way'.
>i don't refer to them when i'm talking to the person on the street as
>'tools of horror' but i do give them some tips on a nicer way.
When 150# Cujo is trying to eat the dog net door,
what "nicer way" do you employ?
> the thing is, you put one of those around your neck, be it choke
> prong or electric and then tell me you want to keep using them.
My neck is very different from a dog's neck. I have no problem with a
choke or prong on my neck - I would respond accordingly. As far as
electric, I have had a ton of PT at times, and the electricity has
been a godsend.
>ok i am bent over ~ no pointy toes please, but form an orderly line to
>kick my arse..............i am braced :)
Nope - don't believe in kicking. But I do use a variety of collars
when training dogs. I'm not a big fan of CHAIN chokes, because I
don't find them easy to fit properly. I prefer nylon slip collars in
general, will never connect a leash to a buckle ID collar, and find
prong collars to be very, very useful training tools.
Rudy is going to start learning the e-collar this week.
I'm sure you'll NOT hear screams from across the pond.
--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?
Paxil Princess psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."
"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.
REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.
Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance.
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar.
Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in
With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'
Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.
Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear," lying frosty dahl.
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
Should I have refused to groom them?
Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
Lynn K.
"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:
"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
ginge...@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.
"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.
Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."
8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).
If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.
This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...
Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.
In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.
In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.
Which one is it?
WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever
to post such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we
earn the right to participate in by observing
the easily understood rules and contributing
to in constructive ways."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS
Almost 50 years on mental illness medications combined
-----------------------------------------
> But I think what Lois was referring to was
> the fact that Darlene actually stated at
> some point that she was bipolar--and, IIRC,
> that meds did not work for her--so she was
> prone to major-league ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/03
BoxHill wrote:
> I know I am totally off topic here, but have
> you read "The Unquiet Mind"?
Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.
Lynn K.
---------------------------------------
MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"
MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...
YOU DO THE MATH
"What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,
'I take anti-depressives'"
From: Gary & lois Edwards (g...@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02
BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS
"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted."
The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.
No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."
Lois E.
-------------------------------------
"It was kind of funny, in an absurd way. The rabbit
was completely still, eyes open and glazed, dried
blood in his ears and mouth, with his back legs
stiffening quickly.
It was her pet rabbit, not a wild bunny, so
that made it much harder for her.
And he was killed by bichons.
Her dogs had torn it apart. My one student who had
shown up (another weird thing about the night) and I
had to continuously check for heart and bowel sounds
for her, until she could accept that the rabbit was dead.
(The rigor mortis in his back legs she attributed to "pain").
Full moon.
Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
> Then she mentioned the names of her dogs,
> and I immediately remembered them.
YOUR STUDENT, leah. Like that RECENT GRADUATE
STUDENT Rottie who'd been in your SOCIALIZATION
classes since IT was ten weeks old who RECENTLY
MURDERED a little innocent DEAD DOG at the park.
> I will always remember the dogs.
Yeah. You and ed w of PET LOSS dot COIN.
From: dfrntdr...@aol.comMURK-OFF (Leah)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 00:55:40 GMT
Subject: Re: The Puppy Wizard
>"Mike E" m...@egbert.com wrote:
> My question was "Is there any legitimacy to the
> harshly-worded teachings of the Puppy Wizard?"
Any legitimate advice he gives is plagiarized from
other, more coherent sources.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. :}
PetsMart Pet Trainer
See My Furry Family At:
Leah Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her chronic
mental problems. Recenly changed to
another ANTI PSYCHOTIC prescription.
"I don't think Jerry intentionally lies. I think he twists
things around in his own mind until he actually believes
what he's saying."
Jerry is the only poster here who gives dangerous
advice. Google for spike and squirt. And let's not
forget the times he's told posters whose dogs have
medical problems that his halfwits-end program could
cure them.
PetsMart Pet Trainer
My Kids, My Students, My Life
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"dallygirl" <kwic...@hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
> causing more harm than good.
Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.
It's a good thing that most of us are here because of dogs'
well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAHAHAHHHHAHHHAAAAA!!!
NHOWE THAT'S SUMPTHIN TO BE PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?
The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
Damn The Descartean War of
"Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words
And Actions And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
"The day may come when the rest of the animal creation
may acquire those rights
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.
The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham
All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
"If you've got them by the balls their
hearts and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{TAPW} ; - ) >
ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?
,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizard. <{YPW} ; ~ } >
oo-oo
AnimalBehaviorForensicSc...@hotmail.com
HOWEDY tommy sorenson aka joey finnochiario aka gentleman jack
morrison aka DOGMAN, you miserable anonymHOWES lying dog abusing
punk thug coward active acute chronic long term mental case,
Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
> The kennel is important, but the dog is more important.
RIGHT. We wouldn't want the dog ESCAPIN like dra. linda
hungerford's or diddler's dogs, would we, tommy?
> Most dogs do very well in a kennel environment,
INDEEDY. You mean a REPUTABLE KENNEL, like yours, eh tommy?
> for short periods,
The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard has boarded many
dogs in HIS kennels for prolonged periods of time.
> provided they get some time each day to play, rough-house,
> etc. with other dogs, keepers, etc.
Perhaps it'd NOT BE WIZE to keep boarding dogs together?
> Especially if they get visited by their owners.
But ONLY if they can visit DAILY, tommy. THAT will
prevent the dogs from FEELIN SAD and not eatin for
three days every time their ower OCCASIONALLY visits.
> Unless the dog is a special case,
EVERY DOG IS SPECIAL, tommy.
> he should do just fine at most any reputable kennel.
Like YOUR REPUTABLE KENNEL, tommy? What IS the NAME
of YOUR REPUTABLE KENNEL, tommy sorenson?
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAHAAAA!!!
> --
> Handsome Jack Morrison
HOWEDY tommy sorenson aka joey finnochiarrio aka gentleman jack
morrison you anonymHOWES lyin dog abusing punk thug coward and
active acute chronic long term incurable mental case,
Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 08:42:18 -0500, Michael A. Ball
> <Guar...@wireco.net> wrote:
>
> >On 2 Mar 2006 03:30:30 GMT, Rocky <2d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote:
> >
> >>bjme...@gmail.com said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> >>
> >>> I would put a pinch collar on, and give a quick snap any
> >>> time he barks when you don't think it's appropriate.
> >>
> >> This is the wrong way to use a pinch/prong collar.
>
> >> Not to mention, this is the wrong way to advise any sort of correction.
> >
> > Seeing that you know the wrong way, do you also know the correct way?
> > If so, please, talk about it. I'd like to hear, and you are one of the
> > folks worth listening to. Thank you.
>
> Does anyone else but me wonder why the OP hasn't
> provided any feedback yet?
Not at all, tommy. ONLY LIARS DOG ABUSERS COWARDS and
ACTIVE ACUTE CHRONIC LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES
post here abHOWETS, like you, tommy <{); ~ ) >
> Another one of those things that make me go...hmmmm.
NO PROBLEMO tommy. That's HOWE COME you got that natural
born STUPID look all over your face. REMEMBER NHOWE, tommy?
HOWEDY tommy,
Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
> On 21 Jul 2005 11:41:01 -0700, lucy...@claque.net wrote:
>
> []
> >> http://teacher.nsrl.rochester.edu/phy_labs/AppendixE/AppendixE.html
> >>
> >> See Part III, Common Mistakes in Applying the Scientific Method.
> >
> > <<The most fundamental error is to mistake the hypothesis for an
> > explanation of a phenomenon, without performing experimental tests.
> > Sometimes "common sense" and "logic" tempt us into believing that no
> > test is needed.>>
> >
> > Like: "praising the bad behavior would reinforce that behavior".
>
> That's just one of many.
An EXXXCELLENT point, tommy.
> Many many many. Virtually every time you open your mouth.
Yeah... You've been sayin the same same to every
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' ENd Dog Training Method Manual Students
when they REPORT their 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANT SUCESS RIGHT HERE. You call them LIARS
and their posts FORGERIES by The Amazing Puppy
Wizard on accHOWENT Of HE IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED
and DISCREDITED you and the rest of these dog
abusing mental cases.
> > <<Another common mistake is to ignore or rule
> > out data which do not support the hypothesis.>>
Like pat aka unsurreality and anything these
admitted dog abusing mental cases say.
> > Like your ruling out all the testimonies of success
> > from those who were following Jerry's method.
Like THAT, for EXXXAMPLE.
> You have no credibility.
Sez you, tommy. You can't train dogs as well
as The Amazing Puppy Wizard's GREEN TRAINED
STUDENTS REPORT RIGHT HERE, tommy. Ask Marty
B and Disciple Pauli and Lisa B and marilyn
and Misty and Robert Crim, tommy.
> Jerry has no credibility.
Jerry DON'T NEED CREDIBILITY tommy, The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual Student's POSTED CASE HISTORIES proves all.
> Jerry's also been caught too many times in the past
> using phony aliases under which to post more "testimonies."
EXXXCELLENT, tommy. POST WON. JUST WON, tommy.
YOU CAN'T, on accHOWENT of you're a lyin mental case
OR YOU WOULD HAVE JUST LIKE HOWE The Amazing Puppy
Wizard QUOTES YOU BEATIN DOGS for HOWEsbreakin when
HE DISCREDITES you and your punk thug coward mental
case pals, tommy.
> Moreover, speaking only for myself here,
You don't get it, do you, tommy. You can't post
here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE. REMEMBER?
> I don't question the fact that someone might
> enjoy some success using Jerry's "manual,"
Like your own DEAD DOG'S Student Robert Crim, tommy?
> because other trainers have successfully used identical methods
CITE WON, tommy. YOU CAN'T. And you know it.
> long before Jerry was even born.
Well then tommy, just feel free to drop a few names.
> Additionally, people have enjoyed success training
> their dogs using no fucking formal method whatsoever!
Yeah tommy, THAT'S THE PROOF that YOUR TRAINING
METHOD CAUSES ALL BEHAVIOR and TEMPERAMENT PROBLES
and MOST DEATHLY DIS-EASES, tommy <{); ~ ) >
> None. Nada. Zilch. Zero.
RIGHT. EVIDENCE, tommy.
> What we're really all talking about here is,
You and your punk thug coward pals hurting intimidating
and murdering innocent dumb critters and lying abHOWET
it to DEFEND your alleged RIGHT to HURT INTIMIDATE and
MURDER dogs like you always have, tommy.
> whose/which methods achieve the better results,
> reliability, etc., and do it the quickest.
Like all them DEAD DOGS you've enterTRAINED TO DEATH
RIGHT HERE, tommy, like laura arlov's DEAD DOG Chewie
or kwbrown's DEAD DOG Teena or steve walkers DEAD DOG
Sampson or chrisman dinan's DEAD DOG usal or purple
pony's DEAD DOG Raggdoll or your own personal pal who's
dog TURNED ON HIM this week and GOT DEAD, tommy.
> I repeat: Until Jerry (or you, or anyone else for
> that matter) is willing to SHOW (yes, in some kind
> of competitive scenario)
LIKE RIGHT HERE on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Forums, tommy.
> that results you can obtain using Jerry's "manual"
> are equal to or better than the results, say,
That you get as ARCHIVED RIGHT HERE, tommy.
You're HOWETA BUSINESS, tommy.
> that I can get using a choke collar or e-collar,
Oh, then SHOWE US YOUR DOGS, tommy?
> or the results any of the other regulars here
Like lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's SAR dog JIVE?
> can get using whichever method(s) they like to use,
Like kwbrown's DEAD DOG Teena or professora melanie's
DOMINANCE PISSIN Papillion and fear aggressive man
shy BC Solo who's been on ANTI PSYCHOTIC MEDS FOR
YEARS and INTENSIVE TRAINING with NO success, tommy?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
> you're just a bunch of snake-oil salesmen.
Well HOWE abHOWET tara o. aka tee's DEAD DOG Summer
and her REPLACEMENT Boxer Rescue Dog of NC Joe Joe
and his DOMINANCE PISSIN HABIT, tommy? She can't
CURE THAT with her new shock collar and PROFESSIONAL
LESSONS, tommy. REMEMBER? Her dog is goin back to
the P-HOWEND.
OR HOWE abHOWET angie with her 8 motnth old P.B.
TURNING ON HER FOR HURTING and locking IT in a box,
tommy? Seems your pals dog MISERY PAIN FEAR FORCE
INTIMDIATION ISOLATION and DEATH.
You ain't gettin away with that nodoGgamenedMOORE.
> We don't drink Kool-Aid here,
PERHAPS YOU SHOULD, tommy. HOWE COME you're
AFRAID of NOT HURTING dogs to train them?
> and this ain't Jonestown (although Jerry
> sure sounds like Jim Jones at times).
Yeah, ON ACCHOWENT OF ALL HIS TESTIMONIALS S-HOWEND"
JUST LIKE HE WROTE THEM HISSELF, eh tommy?
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHA!!!
> ><<Sometimes, however, a scientist may have a strong
> > belief that the >hypothesis is true (or false), or
> > feels internal or external pressure to get a specific
> > result. In that case, there may be a psychological
> > tendency to find "something wrong", such as systematic
> > effects, with data which do not support the scientist's
> > expectations, while data which do agree with those
> > expectations may not be checked as carefully.>>
>
> > Like assuming that an e-collar is safer than praising bad
> > behavior, just because you don't believe that praising bad
> > behavior in order to stop it would work.
>
> How safe is safe enough for someone like you?
Ask Robert Crim. Ask kwbrown. Ask tara o. aka tee.
> Could I ever convince you that, in my hands, an
> e-collar (or any of the other training collars)
> is 100% safe?
Yeah, if you can CONvince us there AIN'T NO BATTERY IN IT.
> How can anything be safer than 100% safe?
That's EZ, tommy. Ask granville. Ask liea altshuller.
Their dogs attacked kids for gettin shocked.
> So why would I ever be tempted to mess with
> perfection because some wingnut asked me to?
Well then tommy SHOWE US YOUR DOGS and TITLES.
Seems if you'd LIE abHOWET JERRY you'd likeWIZE
LIE abHOWET your CHUMPion field dogs, eh tommy?
Post them right here for us so you can BRAG on
your dogs a little bit, eh tommy?
HOWE COME you're a anonymHOWES poster, tommy?
HOWE COME you DENY your true identity DESPITE
that you got stinko and forgot to change tom
sononsons retreiver kennels, MO USA on your
screen name, tommy? Was you mixin business
with rot gut?
> <boggle>
That'll do it.
> ><<In a field where there is active experimentation
> > and open communication among members of the scientific
> > community, the biases of individuals or groups may cancel
> > out, because experimental tests are repeated by different
> > scientists who may have different biases.>>
That's HOWE COME all those CONSISTENTLY IDENTICAL
CASE HISTORY FORGED TESTIMONIALS are so valuable
to a ANAL-ytic behaviorist like professor SCRUFF
SHAKE / DICKY SHAKE SHAKE SHAKE dermer of UofWI
would be SO INTERESTED, if he wasn't AFRAID to
post here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE, tommy.
> > That's exactly why I think that it's so important that
> > you and other trainers who are convinced that Jerry's
> > method doesn't work should try it, in your own hands.
Won't work for DOG ABUSERS.
> By my calculations, if you were getting paid $1000 for
> each straw man or red herring you've ever used here,
CITES PLEASE, tommy? JUST WON.
> you could pay off the national debt in less than 5 years.
We was taking abHOWET MURDERIN DEAD DOGS and BEATIN
and JERKING and CHOKING them on pronged spiked pinch
choke collars and shocking them for behavior problems
and dominance pissin. REMEMBER, tommy?
> For the umpteenth time, the problem here isn't
> that Jerry's "method" doesn't work.
RIGHT. They WORK LIKE FREAKIN MAGICK on ALL dogs.
> If "nothing in particular" can get results (which is
> what the vast majority of dog owners use -- nothing
> in particular), it's likely that even Jerry's methods can.
INDEEDY. But you don't LIKE that on accHOWENT of there's
NO PAIN FEAR FORCE INTIMDIATION BRIBERY ISOLATION OR MURDER.
> The question, if you will, is: do they get MORE EFFECTIVE,
> MORE RELIABLE, results, and do they do it as QUICKLY and
> SAFELY.
CITES PLEASE?
JUST WON...
> And until one of you has the balls to compare results,
Like The Amazing Puppy Wizar's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Students ALL OVER The WHOWEL
WILD WORLD REPORTING CURING ALL TEMPERMENT and
BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS NEARLY INSTANTLY and FOR FREE,
by DOIN EXXXACTLY OPPOSITE of HOWE you do it, tommy.
> yes, in *objective* competition,
HOWE abHOWET CASE HISTORY DATA, tommy.
> no one is going to take you seriously.
You mean, on accHOWENT of you and these MENTAL
CASES keep tellin everyWON all those TESTIMONIALS
are FORGERIES and PAID SHILLS, tommy?
> >> IMO, you're making all of them, plus adding few new ones.
SEE?
> > Oh? Such as? Can you be more specific about what
> > exactly are the mistakes that *I* am making?
>
> When you start answering direct questions, I will too.
BWEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!!
Will you SHOWE US YOUR DOGS TITLES, tommy?
Just send us WON photo with you standin
in front of your trophy case with sumpthin
IDENTIFYING YOU, tommy? BWEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAA!!!
> >> As I've said to you before, go down to your local
> >> shelter and test your so-called "new idea" on many,
> >> many dogs, dogs of all sizes, shapes, temperaments,
> >> and on all kinds of behaviorial problems.
Oh? You mean like HOWE Nevyn and Crystal Arcidy do, tommy?
> >Who is the dog expert here, Jack, I or you?
>
> I am, Lucy.
Well, there goes the shootin match, eh tommy?
> So why aren't you listening to me?
On accHOWENT of you're a liar a dog abuser and mental case.
> Why would you want to listen to a clown like Jerry Howe instead?
On accHOWENT of HE rehabilitated her dogs NEARLY
INSTANTLY from the other side of the world in WON
FELL SWOOP withHOWET havin to SEE her HURT her dogs
tommy. On accHOWENT of ALL behavior problmes are EZ
to EXXXTINGUISH NEARLY INSTANTLY if you don't hurt
dogs to train them, tommy.
> A clown who repeatedly refuses to walk the walk?
We was just lookin forward to some of your SHOWE
wins and maybe a smiling pic of yourself. You got
any puppys for sale these days, tommy?
> <boggle>
HOWE COME you gotta choke beat and shock selectively
bred hand picked and tested hunting dogs to make them
hunt, tommy?
> > Who is the one responsible for the lives of
> > "many, many dogs etc."?
>
> I notice that you're posting from Israel (I think.
> I'm a dog trainer, not Bill Gates), so you should
> know what the word chutzpah means.
Let's talk abHOWET WON PROBLEM DOG YOU'VE EVER SEEN
REHABILITATED NEARLY INSTANTLY WITH YOUR ADVICE.
You AIN'T GOT WON, tommy.
> And you have an awful lot of it to even suggest that
> I (or anyone else) should be anymore responsible for
> the lives of dogs than you are.
Like all your shelter / rescue pals like diddler
and lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn, tommy?
> <boggle>
Yeah.
> Yes, I've been rehabbing and saving the lives of unwanted,
> untrained, and abandoned dogs for more years than I care
> to remember right now,
Well perhaps you should try again in the mornin, tommy.
Your STUDENT'S dog JUST TURNED ON HIM this week and got
murderd. REMEMBER, tommy?
> and I'm pretty damn good at it, too.
Yeah... but you're a mental case and a liar, to boot.
> But there's no reason that you couldn't pitch in yourself, is there?
Yeah there IS, tommy. Lucy can TRAIN MOORE people
from settin right here stark ravin nekkid an suckin
up to The Amazing Puppy Wizard in WON DAY than you'll
EVER see in your life you miserable dog abusing mental
case.
> If for no other reason than to try out your "methods"
> (they become yours when you attempt to push them on
> everyone) on dogs who are in dire need of some help.
Yeah... that's HOWE COME we was talkin abHOWET
HURTIN INTIMIDATING and MURDERING dogs, tommy.
> But nooooo. Apparently, you'd rather spend that time here,
> haranguing the very people who actually walk the walk.
Surprised, tommy? You've been through THIS many
times with The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSITENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Students, tommy.
> And you probably just love to tell everyone you
> know just how much you care about and love dogs
> and animals, right?
No, we never do worry abHOWT that SENSITIVE
stuff you care to use to justify HURTING
INTIMIDATING and MURDERING dogs for their
own good, tommy.
> Yeah, riiiiight.
You're a mental case.
> You're as big of a phony as Jerry is, Lucy.
You been tellin A LOT of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW WIts' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
the same same same tired old song for five years
NHOWE, ever since YOUR STUDENT Robert Crim MURDERED
his own DEAD DOG Fritz. REMEMBER tommy?
> >> It's extremely irresponsible of you, IMO, to
> >> expect others to test your/Jerry's "new idea"
What NEW? You sez it's OLD HAT.
> >> on their own dogs without first establishing
> >> some credibility for it.
HOWE COME a couple minutes ago it was OLD HAT?
> >The idea isn't mine - it's Jerry's
INDEDY.
> It becomes yours when you try to indoctrinate
> others in its use,
But you sez NOT HURTING dog trainin been arHOWEND forever, tommy?
> so sayeth Handsome Jack Morrison.
Is that your final word, tommy?
> Ya' big phony.
Sez a liar and mental case, eh tommy?
TRY THIS, tommy:
>From: Handsome Jack Morrison
<handsomejackmorri...@thedetonatorearthlink.net>
>Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:43:25 -0400
>Subject: Re: For Handsome Jack Morrison: Collars - belated reply
>Note: The author of this message
tommy soronsen, aka dogman aka joey finnochiarrio
aka jack morrison amongst many other false screen
names intended to hide is identity. Ask tommy if
he's tommy and he'll deny it again.
> requested that it not be archived.
Yeah, curiHOWES THAT, AIN'T IT.
sindy SADIST MOOREON did likeWIZE.
But she won't post her abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE.
>This message will be removed from Groups in 5 days (Jul 28, 8:43 pm).
Unless it's replied to and copied in the reply, tommy.
>On 21 Jul 2005 10:07:12 -0700, lucyaa...@claque.net wrote:
Looks like Lucy got to you like HOWE all them
other 100% CONSITENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD who make you INSANE
when they REPORT their 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT
SUCCESS. Must really SUCK bein in your skin, eh tommy?
HOWE COME you won't BRAG abHOWET your PUPPY MILL, tommy?
HOWE COME you don't SHOWE PICTURES of YOUR DOGS and THEIR
TITLES, tommy? Know what, tommy? Suppose the clubs stop
allHOWEING people to use shock collar trained dogs, to
MAKE IT FAIR for all them FLUNKIES who don't know HOWE
to SHOCK a SELECTIVELY BRED for GENERATIONS after GENERATIONS
of SELCECTIVELY BRED HAND PICKED and TESTED FIELD CHUMPION dogs
and have to train them the risky way withHOWET HURTIN THEM?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAAA!!!
>[]
What a chump you are indeed, tommy. A HUNTIN DOG?
DOGS HUNT FOR FUN, tommy. HOWE COME you gotta HURT
your dogs to MAKE THEM HUNT, tommy?
>>And maybe you have the horse glasses of the expert who
>>is blind to the obvious. You are not correcting me, Lynn,
>>because "correcting" means not only telling one "You are
>>wrong", but also explaining why s/he is wrong and also
>>showing how it should be to be "right".
> You have been offered the opportunity to be shown
We SEEN what you do. You told professora melanie to
put a pronged spiked pinch choke collar on her DOMINANCE
PISSIN PAPPILION and JERK and CHOKE IT for PISSIN.
> that what we do,
You HURT INTIMDATE and MURDER dogs and LIE abHOWET IT, tommy.
HOWE COME you don't SHOWE US YOUR DOGS TITLES, tommy?
HOWE COME? You EMBARRASSED? You're listed in the book
tommy, you REMEMBER The Amazing Puppy Wizard SPOKE to
you. In fact, the city hall called The Amazing Puppy
Wizard to let HIM know you was ASKIN abHOWET HIM under
your FALSE NAME of joey finnochiario, REMEMBER tommy?
Hey, speakin of MEMORIES, tommy, you remeber your pal
Robert Crim who had to MURDER HIS DEAD DOG Fritz on
accHOWENT of he followed YOUR ADVICE, tommy? Kinda
JUST LIKE HOWE kwbrown DONE to her DEAD DOG Teena.
SAME SAME SAME SAME for laura arlov's DEAD DOG Chewie.
And purple pony's DEAD DOG Raggdoll and chrisman dinan's
DEAD DOG Usal and steve walker's DEAD DOG Sampson and
tara o. aka tee's DEAD DOG Summer and jls's DEAD DOG
and neeko's DEAD DOG and HOWE MANY OF YOUR OWN DEAD
DOGS have you MURDERED YOURSELF, tommy?
> and exactly how we do it,
You HURT INTIMIDATE FORCE and MURDER dogs. Kinda
JUST LIKE HOWE your PAL'S DEAD DOG THIS WEEK GOT
DEAD, REMEMBER tommy?
> gets equal or better results several times now,
That so, tommy? PERHAPS you'll SHOWE US YOUR TITLES?
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAA!!!
>yet you're still claiming otherwise -
Well tommy, THAT'S ONLY on accHOWENT of the CASE
HISTORY DATA we got RIGHT HERE on The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's Archives <{); ~ ) >
WELCOME!
> - the mark of a dishonest debater.
Yeah, we got some CONcernes abHOWET THAT, tommy.
> Being shown
You mean, like READIN The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
Archives on Google and other fine PUBICLY Archived
news group search engines, tommy? Mabey read a few
of them "OLD POSTS" that are just meant to inflame
embarrass humiliate and PROVE what kinda dog abusin
lying punk thug coward tommy sorenson REALLY IS, eh
tommy? Perhaps THAT'S HOWE COME you WON'T SHOWE US
YOUR DOGS, tommy. Maybe YOU AIN'T GOT NONE, eh tommy?
Hey tommy? MIGHT it be that you're not even really
tommy, but wm koehler working through tommy's kennel?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAA!!!
SO tommy, you TRACKED Lucy DHOWEN to Isreal? Nice.
You can ask a couple of your pals to take some pics
of her and her dogs, eh tommy? BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAH!!!
> is the only way in which a person with such
> limited experience and knowledge of dogs,
You mean that WE don't know HOWE to EXXXPERIENCE
HURTIN INTIMDATIN an MURDERIN DOGS you AIN'T GOT
the INTELLECT to HOWEtwit, tommy?
> dog training,
A dog is a dog as a child is a child, tommy.
> and learning theory
FORGET THEORIES, tommy. Theory MEANS it's GUESSWORK.
> (accompanied, apparently, by such poor reading
> comprehension) is ever going to understand us,
Well tommy, perhaps you'll TRY HARDER to MAKE
YOURSELF CLEAR to Lucy so she DON'T MAKE NO MISTAKES
and end up MURDERIN HER DOGS like HOWE all your PALS
ARE DOIN, tommmy.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHA!!!
You can BLAME that DEAD DOG attakin your STUDENT tommy
on a "BRAIN TUMOR" but that dog ATTACKED IN SELF DEFENSE
on accHOWENT of HE WAS AFRAID and MISHANDLED JUST LIKE
ALL THEM OTHER DEAD DOGS YOU'VE ENTERTRAINED TO DEATH
RIGHT HERE.
PERHAPS THAT'S HOWE COME tommy's a anonymHOWES coward, eh Lucy?
> provided that you even have a real desire to earn
Yeah.. you got any SUCCESS stories of fear aggressive
dominance pissers garbage can poison furniture rug
sock eaters bein REHABILITATED NEARLY INSTANTLY, tommy?
NAME WON. OTHER THAN The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual Students who've CURED
ALL temperament and behavior problems NEARLY INSTANTLY
and FOR FREE, to boot by DOIN EVERY THING OPPOSITE of
HOWE you do it.
Let's talk abHOWET SAR dog trainin, eh tommy? It ain't
much different that field dog trainin, is it, find the
dead critter, get a cookie and back in the box.
> and are not here just to waste everyone's time
The Amazing Puppy Wizard got 45 years INVESTED in THIS,
tommy. There AIN'T NO HURRY, this may take some TIME.
But we'll get to the bottom of it, TRUST The Amazing
Puppy Wizard, tommy, you anonymHOWES vulgar blowhard.
> (I'm more inclined, each time you make a post here,
> to believe the worst about you,
Geez, tommy. These ARE family forums, REMEMBER?
> because you "debate" in such a dishonest manner.).
INDEED? PERHAPS you'd like to PLAY A GAME, tommy?
You remember when your STUDENT Robert Crim played
the pencil game with Jerry Howe and Canis55?
You can't win that game NEARLY INSTANTLY UNLESS
you THINK LIKE A DOG, tommy. They NEVER got it.
The SECRET is STILL KEPT. "GOOD PEN, BAD PEN"?
tommy?
> Plus, you repeatedly ignore the challenge put forth to you
O. K., Tommy. We'll SKIP "good pen bad pen" and we'll
TRY SUMPTHIN YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO WIN. We can play CITE
THE CASES, eh tommy? YOU CITE ANY successful reports
RIGHT HERE includin folks NOT like carol levy who went
IN PERSON to booby maida, captain arthur haggerty's GRADUATE
STUDENT, and came back with her dog TURNING ON HER... in the
past SIX YEARS, and The Amazing Puppy Wizard will match
them THREE to ONE with BETTER FASTER EZIER REPORTED CASE
HISTORY RESULTS and FOR FREE, to boot.
> to go down to your local shelter and test the
> success of your ways on a large number of dogs,
O. K. tommy. Was THAT a GOOD PEN or a BAD PEN?
> with a plethora of different behavior problems.
ALL TEMPERAMENT AND BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
That MEANS we can CURE THEM NEARLY INSTANTLY by simply
NOT DOIN WHAT YOU PUNK THUG COWARD MENTAL CASES BEEN
DOIN. You DON'T SEE NONE of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
havin PROBLMES and MURDERIN their dogs LIKE HOWE YOUR
"STUDENTS" do, tommy.
> And another example of your blatant dishonesty, IMO.
Well tommy, tell us some LIVE dogs you've REHABILITATED?
JUST CITE THEIR POSTED CASE HISTORIES, tommy.
CITE WON.
>>> You certainly can't enjoy that
INDEEDY. PERHAPS THAT'S HOWE COME tommy is anonymHOWES?
>>> and I guarantee nobody else likes engaging
>>> with you on that level.
We COULD always go back to is this a GOOD PEN or a BAD PEN, tommy.
>> Oh, don't bother,
No, LET'S, shall we? Lucy can play too, but she'll
get it on the second or third try. Go for it, tommy.
GOOD PEN or BAD PEN, tommy?
>> I can take it
O. K. Lucy, is THIS a good pen or bad pen?
>> (and judging by the number of replies my posts get,
>> it seems the others can live with it, too). As long
>> as there's a chance for me of learning something new,
INDEEDY. THAT'S HOWE COME you should oughta ask
professor SCRUFF SHAKE to join in this learnin
EXXXPERIENCE seein as THIS is RIGHT UP HIS alley,
so to speak, bein a ANAL-ytic COMPARATIVE behaviorIST.
>> I don't care if you're nice to me or would rather
>> use that choke chain of yours on me.
tommy would PREFER to be CHOKED than sprayed
in the face with water <{); ~ ) >
> It's also dishonest verbiage
That so, tommy?
> like the above that makes you reek of agenda.
INDEED... there ALWAYS IS an ulterior motive,
when THAT'S HOWE you was RAISED, tommy.
> You imply above that there is something
> "bad" about the use of a choke collar,
Yeah, it made ALL them DEAD DOGS TURN ON
THEIR ABUSERS, EXXXCEPT chrisman dinans,
his Pit Bull Ambassador Poster Dog became
FEAR AGGRESSIVE of a small childe when
chrisman JERKED and CHOKED IT on his pronged
spiked pinch choke collar. REMEMBER tommy?
> without even knowing the first thing
> about a choke collar's proper use.
They're GREAT for hangin plantars, tommy.
There AIN'T NO RIGHT WAY to CHOKE your dog.
>>> You wouldn't offer to be a midwife in real life if
>>> you'd never delivered babies, or didn't even know
>>> what type of thing was being delivered, would you?
Well tommy got a little abortion story he likes
to use to DESENSITIZE decent people to what he
DOES to dogs to train them.
>> Oh, but I do know what type of thing is being delivered
>> in our talks here, Lynn. The Socratic Method is a good,
>> old trustworthy way to deliver the truth.
Well then, there goes the shootin match, eh tommy?
>> Why do you fear it?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
Does the term PATHOLOGICAL LIARS come to mind?
JUST ASK for a couple CITES if you need your
memories refreshed, tommy.
> To the best of my knowledge,
Well there goes the shootin match again, eh tommy?
> Socrates never trained a single dog.
SocraTEASE didn't NEED to TRAIN a dog, SocraTEASE
trained The Amazing Puppy Wizard HOWE to IDENTIFY
EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT YOU, tommy.
> Read less Socrates and more Skinner.
Skinner didn't get 100% CONSISTENT NEARLY
INSTANT SUCCESS like HOWE The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students REPORT RIGHT HERE, tommy.
>Read less Socrates and more Koehler.
Read your own FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual, tommy. USE IT and you'll NEVER
NEED to HURT INTIMIDATE or MURDER another dog.
>>> You are doing the same kind of potential harm to people
>>> - propagating a message that is more dangerous than
>>> you understand why,
The only DANGER is to shock collar salesmen and
professional dog training lessons salesmen.
>>Then please explain why it is dangerous.
Ooops!
> That's what people have been doing here ad nauseam,
Yeah, but they AIN'T SAID HOWE COME PRAISE HURTS DOGS, tommy.
> but "you no speaka de eeenglish," apparently.
Well then tommy, start CITING SUCCESSFUL CASE
HISTORIES of you or ANY of your pals here advising
a poster HOWE to CURE ANY problem, like for EXXXAMPLE
garbage can or kat poo or poison or diggin or jumpin
or PISSIN ON THE OTHER DOG like tara o. aka tee's dog,
tommy? You got ANY "TESTIMONIALS" that have been pubicly
posted ANYWHERE?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHHAAA!!!
O. K., tommy, we can always go back to good pen bad pen...
> Until you take the time to learn at least the ABCs
> of learning theory,
Larry aka Too Cool wrote abHOWET that, tommy.
He's a SCIENTIST with a couple Masters and WON
in some sorta biology STUFF. We've PROVED your
"learning theory" is false.
> behaviorism, operant conditioning, etc.,
Is THAT what MURDERED ALL THE DEAD DOGS, tommy?
> we might as well be speaking in tongues to you.
YOU ARE, tommy. FALSE TONGUES.
> You've also avoided answering these simple questions,
PERHAPS you'd like to RESTATE them seein as Lucy
is so DENSE she can't even find a couple CITES
wherebye YOUR METHODS WORKED on BAD DOGS, tommy.
> several times now in fact(why is that?):
Seems Lucy DON'T UNDERSTAND, eh tommy?
> Do you understand what operant conditioning is?
Yeah. It's PRAISE.
> Do you understand how it is used in the training
> of dogs(gerbils, pigs, seals, chimps, humans, etc.)?
Yeah tommy, you gotta PRAISE THEM and they'll
NATURALLY WANT to do ANY THING YOU ASK, tommy.
>> After all, it's up to each dog owner to use his/her
>> judgment in deciding what advice to follow and what not.
THAT'S HOWE COME DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT POST HERE abHOWETS.
> Absolutely true!
And THAT'S HOWE COME you can't post here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE.
> And each of them would be smart to follow trusted, proven methods,
Like on all them DEAD DOGS you've HEELPED, tommy?
> methods that have produced outstanding results for many, many years,
The ONLY CONSISISTENT REPEATABLE RESULTS
YOU GET IS DEAD DOGS, tommy <{); ~ ) >
> and on dogs of all temperaments, behaviors, etc.
Yeah, we was just noticin you can't BLAME THE BREED.
> (i.e., walking the walk),
O.K, tommy. GOOD PEN, or BAD PEN?
> before they waste their hard-earned time "experimenting"
> with a "manual" written by a petty, mean-spirited asshole
Tsk tsk, tommy.
> (along with an few equally ignorant but misguided groupie)
Yeah. They ALL S-HOWEND JUST LIKE JERRY, don't they, tommy.
> who only talks the talk.
THEY TRAINED THEIR DOGS NEARLY INSTANLTLY.
JUST LIKE HOWE Lucy DONE, tommy.
YOU CALL THEM LIARS. REMEMBER, tommy?
REMEMBER tellin Disciple Paulie and Marty B
"they'd NEED TO HURT THEIR DOGS MOORE THAN
THEY'D LIKE" to break coprophagia and kat
food stealin, tommy?
> Experiment on your own dogs.
You mean LIKE THIS, tommy?"
From: Paul B (NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz)
Subject: Re: Dog vs cat food (stealing cat food)
Date: 2001-03-03 22:18:03 PST
It's possible to teach a dog not to eat out
of a cat bowl without too much difficulty.
My dogs don't touch the food in the cat bowls although
Roz licks up any bits that have been dropped around the
bowls :-)
I used a can with stones in it to create a distraction
anytime the dogs tried to eat the cats food, followed
with immediate praise. It worked a treat.
The cats bowls are down all the time, usually there is
food left over but the dogs don't eat it, even if we go
out and leave the dogs with access inside through a dog door.
Paul
--
Obedience and affection are not related, if they
were everyone would have obedient dogs.
See the dogs, cats, us and pics of NZ etc at my homepage.....
http://home.clear.net.nz/pages /paulbousie/index.html
Updated regularly (last time 23 Jan 01) so keep coming back!!!
====================
Here's a oTHER Paul:
Date: 5/22/03 11:24:35 PM Eastern
Daylight Time
From: p...@cfl.rr.com
To: Witsend...@aol.com
Well, let me tell you, your Wits' End
Dog Training Method works.
My dog, Dasie, Loves to chase chameleons
around the barbecue on the patio. I
used this system on four different occasions.
When she went out today, she looked
everywhere else but the barbecue.
Amazing, just amazing.
I will write to Amanda about the video.
I am really excited to learn more, and
understand. Maybe just a little reassurance
that I am going about it the right way.
Thanks again
Paul
=========================
>--
>Handsome Jack Morrison
>*gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail
There's LOTS MOORE JUST LIKE THEMS covering
EVERY BEHAVIOR IN CREATION <{); ~ ) >
HOWER DOG LOVERS CALL THEM LIARS and their posts
FORGERIES by The Amazing Puppy Wizard on accHOWENT
of HE has IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED The
Gang Of Lying Dog Abusing Punk Thug Coward Acute
Active LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASE who choke
shock bribe crate intimidate surgically mutilate
and murder their own fear aggressive hyperactive
HOWETA CON-TROLL dogs and LIE abHOWET it <{); ~ ) >
Here's your FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?G 34D2527A
Just ASK The Amazing Puppy Wizard if you
need any additional FREE heelp. There's NO
arbritrary INFORMATION in your FREE copy
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual so
study it well and do and follow ALL the
EXXXERCISES AS INSTRUCTED... it's a
PRECISE SCIENCE or it COULDN'T GET 100%
CONSISTENT NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS for
all handlers and all dogs in all fields
or utilities and behaviors all over the
Whole Wild World <{) ; ~ ) >
From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST
> > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
> > Mike
> Ok Mike which part worked for you?
It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.
Works like a charm.
My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.
Sorry that slipped my mind.
I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.
Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.
Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.
Seemed he learned through osmosis.
Nice side benefit there.
It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.
I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.
I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.
I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.
Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.
Mike
"Speech is a mirror of the soul:
as a man speaks, so is he."
Publilius Syrus, First century B.C., Maxim 1073
"We are what we do."
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
>Paul B wrote:
>> While the concept of shake cans is not new,
>> I haven't read any other advice that says to
>> praise immediately regardless of what the dog
>> does next (the common advice is to praise once
>> the dog is doing a desired behaviour or at least
>> stopped the unwanted behaviour), this is unique
>> to Jerry (and Marilyn) and from my own
>> experiences is an important part of the process.
And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?
Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
--Marshall
=================
"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>
wrote in message news:9ihtee$7ib$1...@uwm.edu...
From: Paul B (NOSPAMpand...@zfree.co.nz)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 00:13:28 PST
Hello Marshall,
The way I view it from my observation of how
my dogs react is that the distraction interrupts
the dogs thought, not for good or bad, just
interrupts, the dog is therefore distracted for
a second and then will either continue the
behaviour or do something else.
The praise reassures the dog that the sound
distraction is not a threat or punishment,
however if everytime the dog resumes a
particular behaviour it's distracted immediately
(and praised immediately for reassurance) then
it quickly decides this behaviour is not fulfilling
and it ceases.
A dog will offer another behaviour in it's place
and if that is acceptable to us then we let it be
otherwise the distraction continues until a suitable
alternate behaviour is offered.
One example, Sam used to jump up on me
when I arrived home, I would shake can to
distract him right at the moment he was
about to jump up, after about 4 repetitions
he tried sitting and offering me his paw, of
course this was fine so I let it be.
While the concept of shake cans is not new,
I haven't read any other advice that says to
praise immediately regardless of what the
dog does next (the common advice is to
praise once the dog is doing a desired
behaviour or at least stopped the unwanted
behaviour), this is unique to Jerry (and Marilyn)
and from my own experiences is an important
part of the process.
> Thanks Paul! He does recommend praising
> a dog for barking, but he appears to recognize
> that this may not work and so distraction
> is recommended as a back up procedure:
"Estel J. Hines" <ejhi...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:w86dna9lBfN...@comcast.com...
Until i read the Jerry method of Bark
reduction, it went something like this
with our 11 month old puppy "Yoshi"
Yoshi: Bark, bark,
us: HUSH Youshi
Yoshi Bark, bark......................
us: Hush Youshi
Yoshi BARK, BARK, BARK, .................
it stopped when Yoshi got tired barking
We decided to try the Jerry method
Yoshi: BARK, BARK
US: GOOD Yoshi, Good Boy, who is it?
Yoshi Bark, Bark
US: It's ok, good boy Yoshi, We know them.
Yosh without fail, now stops after we say that.
I must say, it is so much more fun, when we
can praise him, to deal with things like this.
Thanks Jerry
ps: We are just starting to go thru the Jerry
Papers, and learn how to live with our son
"Yoshi", whom we love very much. --
Best Regards,
Estel J. Hines
==============
"Dan Moore" <mooret...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:fS2Lc.114567$OB3....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.
Tracy,
What worked for me, in just one storm,
was to praise the dog after each clap
of thunder, telling him he's a Good Dog!
This is an almost 13 year old Doberman, BTW.
The next time it thundered, he did not even
react at all--you could not tell it was the same
dog as before.
There was more thunder just the other day,
and same thing, nada, nothing, zilch, no
cowering, whimpering, trying to hide at all,
it was that simple.
I got this idea from Jerry Howe, who might seem
to be a "wild and crazy" character, but his non-
abusive way of handling dogs WORKS.
Wonderfully.
Praise.
It's that simple.
Juanita
> There really is NOTHING new about the advice above!
Nuthin EXXXCEPT HOWE IT'S DONE,
professor SCRUFF SHAKE.
Here's MOORE SCIENCE, professor SCRUFF SHAKE:
"Leprechaun" <Leprech...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:m01Hc.20882$uK.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>Jerry believes he's a dog trainer.
Fortunately, I happen to believe he is too.
I took a rescued three year old beagle that
had been kept outside all of its life that didn't
even recognize or respond to its name to
Jerry's home (That ugly cinder block shack???
get real) and in just over one hour of working
with the dog, he was coming on command
(not a quickly as he does now, but still...) and
walking with us on a loose lead.
His "hot/cold" exercise and "come when called"
command and pack exercise WORK!
> and in all likelihood he's never even been near a dog.
Well, he's been near mine, and done wonders for him.
You don't have to like him. You don't have
to agree with his methods, but as far as I
am concerned, I've never seen any other
training approach that was as fast and easy.
<<<< Rest of original post deleted >>>>
Ron Flanagan
Orlando, Florida
-----------------------
"Zack Pellers" <ZackPell...@GUESSWHERE.cc>
wrote in message
dlin...@towson.edu (Derek) wrote in news:
697700b8.0405202039.5c737...@posting.google.com:
Your dog needs to be retrained. Contact Mr. Jerry Howe.
You can start by downloading the free training
manual available on the site above. I used it on
my 4 year old Fila Brasileiro.
When I first brought him home from rescue, he
was similar to the way you decribed your dog.
After using Mr. Howe's training method, the dog
was cured within 72 hours.
-Jack
"Ned" <komod...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:fQIg9.25850$561....@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
Hi !
Our black lab girl is 3 months old (she
will be 4 months on the 30th).
When we first brought her home she had
a bad habit of trying to nip our faces (including
my 3 year old twins) during playtime. It drove
everyone in the house nuts and it brought my
little girls to tears as you can imagine.
We tried saying no, and that would just get
her even more excited, so we would yell no
and that would just get her "scared" but still
excited. In short it just wasn't working.
So we finally did what Jerry has suggested
to you. We used a sound do distract her and
we would immediately praise her.
I have to say that it worked great. BUT she
then moved on to nipping at the feet LOL silly
little thing.
So again, we tried no, and then louder no,
but again it didn't work so we went for the
distraction and praise.
I must say that she is doing great!
I hope that helps.
Edyta aka Ned
===================
Florence
------------------------------------
From: "nicole" <To: "Jerald D. Howe">
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 10:46 AM
Subject: Off to a good start!
Hi Jerald, Just wanted to tell you we read
your manual and have started working with
the dogs...
"Chloe" (the one we adopted--a. k. a.
"The Destroyer") has already shown
great improvement! (In Just 1 DAY!)
She responds even better than our other
(better-behaved) dog "Poe".
We tried out the surrogate toy technique, and
not a thing was touched when we got back!
We were both surprised because Chloe isn't
that interested in toys and was still very uptight
about us reaching for the door... anyway, it
seemed to work.
We both work all day today so we'll see
how that goes... Regardless, we will be
cool as cukes when we get home! ;)
I'm just so thankful we might have a chance
to get through to her! We're very excited about
her progress thus far...
Thank You!
Nicole, Michael, Poe and especially Chloe!
_________________________________
> > He put his method on the web, for everyone who
> > wants to try it to use it and see for oneself
> > if it works or not. The results do speak for
> > themselves, indeed.
Yaaabut, tommy and his punk thug coward mental case
pals CALL THEM LIARS and their posts FORGERIES and
call them BAD NAMES for NOT HURTING their dogs.
> To you, they have.
INDEEDY. Lucy REPORTED her 100% NEARLY INSTANT
SUCCESS and in so doin The Amazing Puppy Wizard
saw she was makin a mistake and corrected her so
she THEN REPORTED her 100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL
CON-TROLL of all her dog's behaviors, tommy.
REMEMBER?
> But to experience dog owners/trainers,
Like you and your EXXXPERT dog chokers and murderers, tommy...
> there's really no there there.
INDEEDY. On accHOWENT of you ain't got the INTELLECT
to HOWEtwit the cunning of the domestic puppy dog EVEN
AFTER The Amazing Puppy Wizard and all HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Students ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD
REPORT RIGHT HERE,... JUST LIKE HOWE Lucy done.
> And certainly nothing "new."
INDEEDY. The Amazing Puppy Wizard has been
training and rehabilitating ALL behaviors
in ALL critters ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD
WORLD NEARLY INSTANTLY from settin RIGHT HERE
STARK RAVIN NEKKID, by simply teachin folks
to do EVERY THING EXXXACTLY OPPOSITE of HOWE
you and your mental case pals do it... tommy.
> >> because he knows he'd get laughed off the grounds.
INDEED?
> > He offered someone in this group to adopt her dog
That was tara o. aka tee. Look up "TENDING TO AGREE
WITH POSITIVE TRAINING METHODS" or "I'm SHOCKED that
I SHOCK".
> > who had become aggressive.
Summer became "FEAR AGGRESSIVE" of small children
on accHOWENT of tara locked IT in the box when her
kids pals visited so IT wouldn't bolt HOWET the
door. Then she jerked and choked and sprayed aversives
in her face to stop her barking crying and whining.
Took abHOWE WON MONTH after her kid started enterTRAINING
her little pals, to make Summer GO INSANE <{); ~ ) >
tara's little child is takin ANTI PSYCHOTICS in 1st grade.
> > The person refused and the dog was destroyed.
On accHOWENT of it would have been an EMBARRASSMENT
to see Summer playin with kids in just WON DAY of
not being jerked and choked and shocked crated and
sprayed in the face with aversives bribed and intimidated.
> It's always too bad when a dog has to be euthanized,
INDEED? The Amazing Puppy Wizard AIN'T NEVER DONE THAT, tommy.
ONLY DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASES MURDER DOGS when they get TOO
SCARED to JERK CHOKE SHOCK and INTIMIDATE them someMOORE, tommy.
> but I'd rather turn over one of my dogs to
> Jack The Ripper than to Jerry.
Or you could just MURDER IT yourself, as you've
always hated to do, REMEMBER tommy?
> Why would anyone in his or her right mind turn
> over a beloved dog to a crazy, vile human being?
On accHOWENT of HE DON'T HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER
dogs like HOWE you and your mental case pals PREFER,
tommy. REMEMBER?
> > That dog could have been exactly the kind of test
> > you're talking about.
AS ALL THE OTHER CASE HISTORIES WE GOT RIGHT HERE DEMONSTRATE.
> > In that case, it wasn't Jerry the one who refused
> > to "walk the walk".
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAAAA!!!
> Jerry's been called out so many times
> that I can't even remember them all.
NO PROBLEMO, tommy. THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing
Puppy Wizard only posts to pubicly archived news
groups, so you bums can't BURY the EVIDENCE.
> For example, to have a disinterested third party
> take several abused and or incorrigible dogs from
> shelter and have Jerry do his thing
The Amazing Puppy Wizard DOES HIS THING from settin
RIGHT HERE stark ravin nekkid, REMEMBER tommy? The
Amazing Puppy Wizard don't got to SEE dogs to know
HOWE MUCH to HURT them, tommy.
> and have me do my thing,
You abuse dogs, tommy.
> in front of cameras, etc.,
The ONLY way The Amazing Puppy Wizard would demonstrate
dog trainin with you or your punk thug coward mental
case pals is IN FRONT of a CRIMINAL JUDGE and JURY for
criminal prosecution of animal abuse.
We can start with The Amazing Puppy Wizard's "DUAL
SHOCK COLLAR CHALLENGE", tommy. REMEMBER? THAT'S
where you put your dual tuned shock collars on
you and your dog aggressive Pit Bull shelter puppy
and get to DEMONSTRATE HOWE gently you can train
a dog not to fear other dogs... then you got to
got to jail for bein a liar and dog abusing mental
case, REMEMBER tommy?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
> and let the results speak for themselves.
We could engineer a stress / psi meter onto
your choice of choke collars (take your pick)
and perform EXXXACTLY the SAME SAME corrections
on yourself, eh tommy? The MARVELS of digital
electronics can reproduce the same mechanical
choking you give your dogs... to the judge and
jury.
> I even offered to pay his way.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard offered to IDENTIFY
EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT you, REMEMBER tommy?
> Each and every time, he refused to participate.
Let's start with who's JACK, tommy? Seems tommy
soronsen of soronsen kennels has been loaning
his computer to jack morrison and dogman and
joey finnochiarrio, eh tommy? Or did you get
stiff and forget to change identities?
HOWE COME remaining an anonymHOWES coward is
so important to you, tommy?
> That is, *all* those dogs "could have been saved," right?
The Amazing Puppy Wizard has DONE that from
settin right here, stark ravin nekkid, REMEMBER
tommy? Seems YOU and your punk thug cowared mental
case pals are the only bums HURTING and MURDERIN
dogs. IN FACT, your punk thug coward pal angie
JUST MURDERED her own DEAD DOG THIS WEEK.
REMEMBER?
> >> The only people who believe any of his crap
> >> are naive, gullible dog NOVICES like yourself.
Yeah.. the 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD who REPORT their 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS RIGHT HERE, tommy.
You know, the WONS you call LIARS, like Lucy.
> >"His crap" WORKED, Jack.
Seems jack sez the same same to EVERY WON.
He told Disciple Paul and Marty B they'd "NEED to
HURT THEIR DOGS MOORE THAN THEY LIKED" to break
coprophagia (eatin shit) and called them LIARS
when they reported that same week they'd CURED
their dog's coprophagia...
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
> What I meant there was that you apparently believe
> that "his crap" is anything new or revolutionary.
INDEEDY.
> It's not.
Then HOWE COME it GETS 100% TOTAL NON PHYSCIAL
CON-TROLL NEARLY INSTANTLY by doin EVERY THING
EXXXACTLY OPPOSITE of HOWE you do, tommy?
> > I may be gullible and naïve, but then my dogs
> > are even more gullible and naïve, because they
> > reacted exactly as Jerry predicted they would.
LIKE THAT, eh tommy?
> >> And it's a damn shame.
INDEEDY. THAT MEANS YOU'RE HOWETA BUSINESS, tommy.
> > Look, I've been seeing here people who claim to
> > be "trainers" and whose houses look like a battlefield
> > after their "TRAINED" dogs spent there a few hours alone;
> For example?
Try shelly's dog day afternoon... when her dogs
DESTROYED her bedroom... or leah robert's CASE
HISTORY where here dogs DESTROYED HER ENTIRE HOWES.
> >others give complicated advice about how to protect
> >their cats from their dogs;
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It A Sharp Tap
Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If
He Thought Solo Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN SHY" dog to be
BEATEN by a strange male trainer is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a
DOG LOVER?
> So what?
BWEEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHHAHHAAAAA!!!
THAT'S A professora of anthropology who's WORKIN
with dra. karen overall and a RESEARCH project
on GENETICS and AGGRESSION, tommy. Her own FEAR
AGGRESSIVE dog Solo has been IN TREATMENT for
FIVE YEARS at UofPA behavior clinic and ON ANTI
PSYCHOTIC DRUGS with NO SUCCESS.
Her other dog DOMINANCE PISSES in her HOWES,
for which you recommended jerking and choking
IT on her pronged spiked pinch choke collar
on accHOWENT of "DOGS ABHOR A LEADERSHIP VACCUM".
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
> > others can't even walk their dogs on a leash,
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
> There are some pretty lousy trainers out there, Lucy.
YOU MEAN RIGHT HERE, tommy. The CASE HISTORY DATA
will clearly show you're the dog abusing mental
cases who CAUSE ALL temperament and behavior problems.
> There are some pretty lousy doctors, engineers,
> lawyers, out there, too.
Let's talk abHOWET dog behavior and trainin, tommy?
> > or prevent their opposite sex dogs from wounding
> > each other in their continuous fights. I could
> > have been in the place of these unfortunate owners,
> > but for this simple and easy method that Jerry
> > had made available for me and the rest of the world.
> Well, I'm happy that it worked for you.
INDEED? Is THAT HOWE COME you call Lucy vulgar
names and lie abHOWET HOWE you choke shock
intimidate and murder dogs, tommy?
> But that doesn't mean that Jerry had much to do with it.
Of curse not. Jerry's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Students NEVER FAIL, tommy.
> Over the many years that I've been here,
You've HURT INTIMDIATED and MURDERED MOORE dogs
than The Amazing Puppy Wizard can remember. LUCKY
THING it's ALL INDELLIBLY ARCHIVED FOREVER RIGHT
HERE in The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives <{); ~ ) >
Like melanie and her DOMINANCE PISSIN Papilion, eh tommy?
> literally thousands of dog owners have been helped here,
CITES PLEASE?
> and by *many* of the regulars,
CITES PLEASE?
> and none of us feel the need to claim that our
> help was "revolutionary" or "special" or "new,"
RIGHT. You've been jerking choking and murderin
dogs since DAY WON, tommy.
> or needed to post the same "testimonials" over
> and over again, ad nauseam, etc. -
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAA!!!
>- because we're not here to SELL anything, like Jerry is.
You mean, HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual, tommy?
> We just want to help people with their dog problems
That so? You done FINE with laura arlove and her
DEAD DOG Chewie and kwbrown's DEAD DOG Teena and
tara o. aka tee's DEAD DOG Summer and Robert Crim's
DEAD DOG Fritz.
LUCKY THING professora melanie can LIVE WITH
her dog's DOMINANCE PISSIN on accHOWENT of
SHE CAN'T CURE IT by jerking and choking Skeeter.
> and have a little fun in the process.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAHAHHAAHAA!!!
ARE WE HAVIN FUN YET, tommy?
> That you can't figure this out for yourself
> says a lot more about you than it does us.
Lucy CURED her dog's FEAR AGGRESSION and SEPARATION
ANXXXIHOWESNESS NEARLY INSTANTLY withHOWET havin the
FUN of JERKING and CHOKING and INTIMIDATING them, tommy.
> >> > Even a child could train a dog by this method
> >> > (as a matter of fact,
> >> Children and adults have been "training" dogs from
> >> the first days that dogs/wolves decided to share a
> >> campfire (and maybe some food) with primitive man.
> >> It ain't rocket science, actually.
> > True. One needs a bit of intuition, though - and a
> > good understanding of the beast.
> They won't get that from Jerry, who has repeatedly
> claimed here that he doesn't even like dogs.
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
Seems if The Amazing Puppy Wizard who "DON'T EVEN
LIKE DOGS or KIDS" can TRAIN them withHOWET HURTIN
INTIMDIATING and MURDERIN them, certainly DOG LOVERS
like you and lying "I LOVE KOHELER" lynn can do it
withHOWET HURTING INTIMIDATING and MURDERING dogs,
eh tommy?
You got any BETTER arguments, tommy?
> >> We're still using food to good effect, even today.
PROBLEMO! The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ usin
bribery will teach the dog MISTRUST and increase
anXXXIHOWESNESS to dangerHOWES levels where seizures
and OCD behaviors live, REMEMBER tommy?
> >> In fact, the vast majority of dogs do pretty damn good
That so, tommy?
> >> (no, they won't win any ribbons, etc.
HOWE COME, tommy? A four year old CHILD can
learn HOWE to pupperly handle and train ANY
dog on accHOWENT of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
DON'T RELY on PAIN FEAR FORCE INTIMDIATION
BRIBERY or MURDER, like HOWE you and your punk
thug coward mental case pals do, REMEMBER, tommy?
> but they can become pretty doggone good
"PRETTY GOOD" MEANS DISMAL FAILURE, tommy, when
you COMPARE THAT with 100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL
CON-TROLL, don't it, tommy.
> >> house-pets and companions) with basically
> >> no *formal* training whatsoever.
PERHAPS THAT only happens with folks like Nick
from NZ, who NATURALLY has a kind gentle loving
manner with his dogs and children, or had you
FORGOT abHOWET that, tommy?
> > Agreed. But once in a while you have to deal
> > with a little devil who simply drives you crazy.
> > It was one like that who made me search the web
> > until I found Jerry's method, luckily for both
> > me and my dog.
But your 100% TOTAL NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS AIN'T
what tommy LIKES to see, Lucy. tommy PREFERS HURTIN
INTIMDIATIN and MURDERIN dogs... as you'll SEE if
you look up the above CASE HISTORIES.
> Again, you're a fool to Jerry any credit for it.
INDEED, tommy. You're a lying dog abusing punk
thug coward mental case and you and your pals
can't post here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE.
> Classical and operant conditioning should get all of the credit.
EXXXCEPT that's not valid, tommy.
> Again, think: Infinite Monkey Theory.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAHAAAA!!!
The Amazing Puppy Wizard prefers to think of
you blowin bubbles, like that Gorilla tommy.
> Even some idiot like Jerry must get something
> right, if he keeps typing long enough.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard DOESN'T TYPE those
POSTED CASE HISTORIES, tommy, HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual Students LIKE Lucy,
who REPORT those FLUKES, tommy. REMEMBER NHOWE?
> >> > I think that children >do get along so well
> >> > with dogs BECAUSE instinctively they train
> >> > them according to Jerry's method: treat the
> >> > dog with respect, earn the dog's trust, and
> >> > the dog will do ANYTHING you ask).
> >> Oh. My. God.
Ooops! That's SUPERSTITIHOWES, tommy. We DON'T RELY
on G-D to train HOWER dogs and children, tommy. IN
FACT, most of HOWER DOG LOVERS HATE G-D, tommy.
> >> Again, do you really believe that shit?
What, G-D or NON VIOLENT TRAINING, tommy?
> > I've seen it in action, Jack. My first dog was
> > trained by my two nieces- 12 and 11 y.o. at the
> > time. I was busy reading dog training books, while
> > the kids were making the dog do whatever they
> > wanted by simply treating the dog with lots of
> > love and kindness.
> I think you're basically full of shit then,
INDEED?
> or, your nieces were named Sigfried and Roy.
Didn't his kat ATTACK and nearly MURDER him, tommy?
The imbecile was tryin to "TAP" the kat on his nose
to stop IT from STEALIN HIS TREATS, tommy.
Seems Sigried and Roy are HOWETA BUSINSESS for the
same same same same reason as HOWER DOG LOVERS DOGS
TURN ON THEM, tommy.
> >> Kids can be amongst the worst of tormentors of
> >> dogs on the planet; that's why they get bitten
> >> so often!
INDEED? PERHAPS THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
teaches parents and children HOWE to BE NICE, tommy?
> > I know. Children reflect on animals the violence
> > they are subjected to by their caretakers.
INDEEDY.
> Oh, bullshit. Some kids are just plain mean. Period.
No tommy. "Violence is LEARNED" sez researchers at
Harvard and UCLA <{); ~ ) >
> They could have the nicest, sweetest parents in the world,
Like tara o. aka tee?
> and usually do.
Like yourslf, tommy?
> >> Especially when the kid's parents are as
> >> clueless as the kid, which is far too often
> >> the case.
Or maybe they're just drunken mentally ill abusers, like
yourself and the above mentioned dog murderers, tommy?
> >True.
> >> Most importantly, every trainer worth his salt knows
> >> that treating a dog with respect (and consistency!)
> >> can help to earn a dog's trust.
INDEEDY:
"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to
it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.
And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.
Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."
Lynn K.
captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to progress to
striking them more sharply.
REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.
Now you are ready to progress to what
most people think of as force-fetching:
the ear pinch.
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching
so urgent that resisting your will fades in
importance.
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch even get a studded
collar and pinch the ear against that if the dog still
does not open its mouth, get out the shotshell.
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing
and the collar, even the buckle on the collar.
Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in
With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'
Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the
stick.
Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the
dummy. You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the
dummy against its lips and pinching its ear."
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I
> have, Solo joined in and then lunged to the end of
> the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> >Is choking a dog, for instance, the way to show this respect?
> Who here recommends choking a dog, Lucy?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!
> Do you have your own personal tank of nitrous oxide,
> by any chance?
Perhaps we've entered a new reality?
> <boggle>
> >> That you attribute this virtue to Jerry Howe
> >> and Jerry Howe alone shows me any one of several
> >> things:
> >> 1. You don't get out much.
> >> 2. You're married to Jerry Howe
> >> 3. Jerry Howe pays you to say things like that.
> >> Which is it?
> > LOL. Certainly not 2 (I have the slight feeling that
> > Mrs. Howe would object to such an eventuality) and
> > neither 3: Jerry doesn't have to pay me to tell the
> > truth. I tried his method on my critters, it worked,
> > I came here to report the results.
> Oh, bullshit. He asked you to come here and "report the results."
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
You mean her 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS,
by simply DOIN EVERY THING OPPOSITE of HOWE you MENTAL
CASES treat your dogs, tommy?
> He didn't however ask those idiots who actually bought
> his little machine (the one he hawks relentlessly)
RIGHT. THEY POSTED ALL ON THEIR VERY OWN, just like
HOWE Lucy done, tommy. Care to SEE some of the
TESTIMONIALS and CASE HISTORY DATA, tommy?
LIKE THIS?:
From: Chris Williams (k9ap...@webtv.net)
Subject: Re: Thank you Jerry Howe
Date: 2002-03-26 08:16:19 PST
Engrossing account, Anthony. Our best to Angel
and your family.
A friend, who socializes the kittens I've taken
from a feral cat colony, is using the DDR.
She reports far fewer panic problems than
she's had before.
============================
Chris Williams writes:
"The FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual
I do find valuable. Much of it I recognize as what
I've always done without thinking of it as "training".
New stuff, I've used. His anchoring technique erased
the last of Mac's fireworks trauma,"
====================
Subj: Fear of Thunder
Date: 6/29/02 6:07:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Jraltman
To: Witsenddog
Dear Jerry,
I hope you'll be able to post this message so more people who
are at their wit's end will be able to help their dogs.
To review:
Our puppy was uncomfortable during thunder
storms. At the beginning of the problem, she
paced restlessly from room to room. She
couldn't settle and sleep.
>From there the problem grew. She would run
to the far southeast corner of the house (which
makes sense because most storms here come
from the northwest) and she'd cower in the
corner of the couch and shake.
!st attempt to help her:
I'd pick her up, brush and massage her (call
me a nut - I've sung to her when I've done her
daily brushing since she was tiny so of course
I sang too) and when she relaxed, I'd put her
in her crate. She then slept and I thought the
problem was solved.
Traumatic event:
We were out in the park playing with one of
her doggy friends when it began to rain. On
the way home, there was the loudest, longest,
thunder clap I've ever heard. From that day on,
the problem got worse and worse. I couldn't
calm her with singing and massage. The fear
spread. She wouldn't go out if it was raining.
No thunder, just gently summer rain, and she
wouldn't go out.
The solution:
I surfed the net and came across a free manual
Wit's End Dog Training Method and a product
called Doggy Do Right that seemed better than
anything else I came across.
A phone call to Jerry Howe, author of the manual
and Director of Research, Biosound Scientific,
convince me to try both the manual and the product.
Problem solved:
I followed Jerry's suggestions (more phone calls -
he is most generous with his time and advice). The
first two thunder storms my puppy was restless but
not running around in a blind panic. The third storm,
she barked her deep, stranger danger bark after each
clap of thunder. The fourth storm, she seemed uneasy
at first. Soon she was asleep at my feet and she napped
through the rest of the storm. A miracle. I am endlessly
grateful to Jerry for his manual and his machine.
A word about Doggy Do Right. It is odd to buy
a machine that emits a sound I cannot hear.
I took the chance because Jerry offered a full
refund including shipping. Though I heard
nothing, my puppy clearly did. When I first
turned on the machine, she got the cutest,
most quizzical look on her face.
She looked at me as if to say: "What's that?
I never heard that before." She looks at the
machine when it is on. She rests on the floor
beneath it. It is obvious from her behavior
that she is aware of its cycles.
Amazing.
Thank you Jerry.
=========
ALL temperament and behavior problems are CURED
NEARLY INSTANTLY by DOIN EXXXACTLY OPPOSITE of
HOWE you handle and train dogs, tommy, and The
Amazing Puppy Wizard's Doggy Do Right (And Kitty
Will And A Rooster Did And A Cockatoo And A Horse
And A Cow Or Two Did Too) Machine PROVES IT with
NO HUMAN INTERVENTION whatsoever, using THE SAME
SAME SAME SAME NON PHYSICAL SCIENTIFIC and
PSYCHOLOGICAL Techniques, therebye PROVING EACH
OTHER, tommy.
THAT MEANS, you and your punk thug coward
mental case pals are HOWETA BUSINESS, tommy.
> and didn't got BUPKIS for results to come here
> and "report the results."
Well, seems tommy AIN'T BEEN FOLLOWIN HOWER FORUM?
> > I did so, expecting the people here to
> > put their feelings aside when the good
> > of the dogs was involved.
"WE'RE ONLY DOIN IT FOR THE DOGS" sez matty.
> I can love dogs and still loathe Jerry, can't I?
No. You got to get the heel HOWETA THIS BUSINESS, tommy.
> If Jerry's "manual" somehow helped you, that's good!
That so?
> And good for your dog.
You'd PREFER her dog SUFFRER and DIE from
separation anXXXIHOWESNESS like HOWE so
many of your PALS dogs have done, tommy.
> But lets leave it at that, okay?
Naah, that ain't good enough, tommy. The
Amazing Puppy Wizard gotta IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE
and DISCREDIT you as a lying dog abusing
mental case, REMEMBER tommy?
> > I had hoped that experienced trainers would
> > discuss the METHOD, rather than the personality
> > of the author.
THEY DID. THEY LIED abHOWET it. Like HOWE tommy's doin.
> We tried for many moons to "discuss the method" with
> Jerry, but he refused, preferring instead to call
> everyone names, insult them, lie about them, etc.
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
> Fuck Jerry Howe.
NOT WITHOHOWET A KISS, tommy:
/),,/)
( ' ; ' )
(,,)-(,,)
/),,/)
( ' ; ' ) kiss me
(,,)-(,,)
/),,/)
( ; ' ) here
(,,)-(,,)
/),,/)
( ' ; ) here
(,,)-(,,)
/)
( * ) and here
(,,)-(,,)
(.)(.)
( (_) )
> - <
> > So perhaps the answer to your question is
> > 1. Lately, I've been spending maybe too
> > much time in rpdb, so I guess that this must be it.
INDEEDY. "DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT POST HERE abHOWETS."
> You're not only spending a lot of time here,
> you're WASTING IT.
Of curse, on accHOWENT of you and your punk thug
coward mental case pals will do and say ANY THING
to defend your alleged RIGHT to HURT INTIMDIATE
and MURDER dogs that SCARE you when you HURT and
INTIMDIATE them.
> Because no one here but Jerry thinks you're
> anything but a dupe or a shill.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!
Well Lucy, you're in EXXXCELLENT company... that's
what tommy SEZ to ALL The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSITENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD <{); ~ ) >
> >> I'd prefer to think that you're not this stupid,
> >> but I'm having a tough time with it.
Just give Lucy the benefit of the DHOWET.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAAA!!!
> > That's OK. I know that you guys here are immune
> > to my irresistible personal charm, alas. It's a
> > bruise to my ego, but I guess that I'll survive. :-)
Yeah, but HOWER DOG LOVERS can't take too much MOORE
of this. They been singin the same tune for five years.
> Your ego
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
> >> > This wasn't likely to endear him to the experts,
> >> > who train the dogs the hard way, the way more
> >> > painful to the trainer and much, much more so to
> >> > the dog.
That's O.K.. The Amazing Puppy Wizard CAME HERE to
IDENTIFY EXXPOSE and DISCREDIT these EXXXPERTS like
professor SCRUFF SHAKE dermer and his punk thug
coward pal dr. mark plonsky of UofWI and captain
arthur haggerty and the rest of these lying dog
abusing punk thug coward mental cases.
> >> Professional trainers spend their entire careers
> >> looking for ways to make training easier, faster,
> >> more effective, more reliable, etc., and easier
> >> on the dog.
Yeah. THAT'S HOWE COME they got pronged spiked
pinch choke and shock collars...
> >> I know I have.
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
tommy can't even HOWEsbreak a dog withHOWET BEATIN IT.
> > Then you must have tried this crazy thing,
> > praising bad behavior? Did>it work for you,
> > or not?
> It's a DISTRACTION. Period.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
> If you want to keep thinking that the praising of
> the behavior is what's helping, try cursing your
> dog's behavior with your next dog, and with the
> same enthusiasm that you used to "praise" your
> current dog..
That'll work just fine, tommy... just follow the METHOD:
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."
<drv...@mindspring.com>
To: <pdd-aspy...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 9:31 AM
Subject: How does diagnosis shape treatment?
How does diagnosis shape treatment?
Nearly every week I have a visit from Jerry Howe, who
publicizes himself as The Puppy Wizard. Jerry is a
master at behavioral modification of dogs.
His fundamental bedrock is the work Pavlov's last student,
the late Sam Corson, Ph.D., did at the U of Ohio (at Oxford,O).
Sam always pointed out if the dog stopped working for
you in the lab, Pavlov and he always took the dog away
from the lab, and put him in a loving home and gave him
TLC for a couple of months, and then started, very carefully,
over again.
Jerry believes that reward and constraint focused training
is immoral. I've watched him in one short session calm
impossible dogs, just about to be murdered (oops "put to
sleep") because of their "incorrigibly" violent behavior.
Sam was one of the first people to apply amphetamine to
hyperactivity (he searched the Middle West for hyperactive
dogs); but he never lost sight of the fundamental reality that
a dog is not a human, but does respond, doggily, to dog love.
You might be surprised to go to B. F. Skinner's "Cumulative
Record" and read the essay by Breland and Breland, "The
Misbehavior of Organisms".
Animals cannot be successfully trained unless the
trainer attends to the evolutionary history, the individual's
developmental history, and the environmental niche of
the animal being trained.
Yep, right there in Skinner's last and summary book.
Even with behavior mod, you must know the animal.
<snip>
Dogs or little boys, you have to know the individual
history, and the nature of he disorder.
Dr. Von
PS if you are interested in dogs, then take a look at
Jerry's work, TheAmazingPuppyWiz...@Mail.Com.
> Report back the results, okay?
SHE DONE THAT, tommy. You're callin her a LIAR, REMEMBER?
> >> Again, "experts" around the world would be flocking
> >> to Jerry's Florida shanty (yes, I've actually seen
> >> it! it's a shanty.)
You're a stalker, tommy.
> > It doesn't matter if it's a shanty or a palace. His
> > METHOD is either good or bad, REGARDLESS of who or
> > what he is, much less where he lives.
> His "method" is neither good nor bad.
IT GETS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS.
> It's just the same old same old.
We're talkin abHOWET 100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL CON-TROLL.
> >> to find out more about this wonderful "new" way of Jerry's.
YOU MEAN NOT HURTING DOGS, tommy?
> > They don't need all this Real Life pilgrimage;
> > his method is on the web. All they need to do
> > is read it and try it themselves.
> What they need is to see it COMPARED to other methods,
> and to let the results (and the dogs) speak for themselves.
WE ALREADY DONE THAT, tommy. Talk to Lucy someMOORE.
> >> But there's nothing in his "manual" that
> >> can't be found elsewhere,
CITES PLEASE?
> >> and there's certainly nothing magical about it.
EXXXCEPT 100% TOTAL NON PHYSCIAL CON-TROLL NEARLY INSTANTLY
AS REPORTED BY C-HOWENTLESS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Students ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD. REMEMBER tommy?
YOU CALL THEM LIARS and FORGERIES and PAID SHILLS,
on accHOWENT of you're a miserable lying dog abusing
punk thug coward mental case.
> >What about praising bad behavior, for instance?
> He's managed to convince you that this is something
> "new," when it's not, if you keep in mind that it's
> just a SOUND DISTRACTION.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!
Not to mention a S-HOWEND DISTRACTION WILL NOT
WORK if repeated twice in succession or not
INSTANTLY followed by PROLONGED NON PHYSICAL
PRAISE, REMEMBER tommy?
> >> If Jerry really cared about dogs (he claims he
> >> doesn't!), he'd come out into the sunshine and
> >> walk the walk.
THAT'S HOWE COME The Amaizng Puppy Wizard ONLY
posts to pubicly archived news groups, REMEMBER
NHOWE, tommy?
> >> For a change.
The ONLY CHANGE we need is to be RID of you
and your punk thug coward mental case pals.
> >> But he won't.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
> >> He prefers to talk the talk.
LIKE THIS:
Elaine McClung, President of Pet Rescue, Animal Comissioner
Brevard Co FL, writes: Sep 9, 2000
"I ordered from Jerry a long time ago.. He was helpful and
the order was filled promptly. Yes, Doggie Do Right does
indeed exist.
I "had" a very aggressive female Pit.. She was showing
aggression not only towards Dok, Rhodesian Ridgeback,
but our cats and even us.
She now plays with Dok, even to the point of allowing him
to take a toy or bone from her. She no longer shows any
aggression towards us. She is showing some aggression
towards the cats but that is down to a warning growl.
It is not just my opinion that all this aggression existed
before Doggie Do Right as we were advised by three vets
to euthanize her.
I do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it
has helped my dogs and cats. I do think your product is a
valuable tool in helping with aggression and other behavior
problems.
I am in Feral CatNetwork (we spay and neuter approximately
100 feral cats a month), I am also a member of a local AKC
dog obedience club, member of a local AKC agility club,
president of Pet Rescue, board member of the Alliance for
Care and Welfare of Animals (on the board are: county
commissioner, vet. rep., rep. from AKC dog club, CFA cat
club, assistant County manager, head of animal control,
director of two different shelters, etc.) and Space
Coast Feline Network http://www.spacecoastfelinenet work.com
Thanks, Elaine,
===================
Hi Jerry,
I wrote to you a week or so ago about the unit. I have since
borrowed one from Elaine Mc Clung. She speaks very
highly of it.
So, I brought it home and plugged it in. Of course, I
wanted it to come on, all the barking stop, and have every
one immediately fall to the floor in little comas for a few
hours. Well, after I got all 27 of them to be quiet, still no
comas. But, it had only been 36 seconds at that point. So,
I gave it a little longer. Still no comas. Was this really
going to work? I mean, I do have an unusual situation.
So, by bedtime, a few hours later. I started to notice just
how many were asleep already - with their feet in the air! I
started to have hope. During the night, all was calm. In the
morning when I got up, only a few of them WALKED quietly
to the door to go out. Not the usual evacuation.
I had the unit from Sunday afternoon until Tuesday
Morning. I was certainly pleased with the night effect. I
wasn't so sure about the amount of the day time effect.
Until I took it back. Within half an hour, the monsters had
resurfaced. I wondered if I could break into Elaine's house
and if she would notice
I know another person who does dog rescue. She rescues
Beagles. She has 23 in an 1100 square foot house. God
bless her. She is interested to see if it will work for her. I
also spoke to someone else who does cat rescue, and
she is interested. The cat rescue people have monthly
meetings. Maybe Elaine could give a word or two about it.
So, if there are any words of advice you can send my way
about the best way to use it in my case, I would appreciate
it. I of course wanted to keep it on the highest setting, but
don't know if that is advised, even with my situation of so
many new ones coming and (too few) going.
Also, how I and others can go about getting one, etc. I
think the vets should have the info in their offices. It must
help dogs with separation anxiety. My vet practices
homeopathic as well as traditional medicine, so I
would think it would be right up her alley.
Thank you.
Desiree M Webber
A New Leash On Life
================
From: "Regina Guerrero" <>
To: <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:42 AM
Subject: Thank You!
> I just wanted to take a bit of time
> to tell you how much I appreciate your product and
> your training methods as well.
> When my little Chihuahua first arrived
> I was overwhelmed with her anxiety and
> her ability to just Bark endlessly.
> I received your product and at first I thought
> I was using it wrong, because my puppy just seemed to ignore it.
> But after a week or two, she began to calm down considerably
> as well as act more friendly towards people on the street.
> I can't believe the difference I see in my little puppy.
> Your product is a life saver! Thanks again for everything.
> Sincerely,
> Regina Guerrero
==================
jerry
first i want to thank you for the BIOSOUND Scientific Integrator
and also for your training manual i first got the Biosound when
maggie was a puppy and it was great help in getting to relieve
stress or to relieve stress in her when we added riley to our family
we had some tense times as you know rily was 15 months old and
had had extensive training ,but was very set in his ways
biosound relieved his stress from the change that took place in his
life mixing with maggie has been a wonderful experience for us
watching them play and react together is a real pleasure they are
both very good therapy dogs and Biosound helped us get them
started and to stay on the right track
thanks for everything
john j mamaux
carlsbad ca
=========================
"Anthony Testa" <testa52...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:c603fe9c.02032...@posting.google.c om...
> I moved to Jacksonville, Florida about a year ago with my lovely wife
< snip horror story >
> Listen to this...My wife wrote one of the so called know it all of
> pets. His response to the exact letter we initially wrote to
> Jerry..."Get rid of the dog, bring her back" I'll save this person
> embarrassment by not saying the name. However, you know who you are
> and I have this to say to you. Go pump gas or bus tables because you
> sir, do not belong working with animals!
> Jerry, after reading some of the threads in the news group, I can't
> for the life of me understand why this many people are so dang blind
> or ignorant.
> You just keep plugging away at what you do, because you my friend are
> a life saver!!!
> Anytime you need someone to speak about the results of your product,
> you have my number. We would gladly talk to them.
> Thank you very much for all your help. God bless you...
> Anthony & Linda Testa
> Jacksonville, Florida
==============
"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:21047-3CA...@storefull-2291.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> Jerry sent me the DDR when I mentioned my cockatoo was
> stressed out by my then just learning to walk baby.
> Buddy was screaming day and night..lunging at Joey
> whenever he crawled up to Buddy's cage and nipping
> the baby ( if Buddy wanted to his beak is powerful
> enough to sever an adult's finger in one snap!)
> At first we noticed nothing... after a few days ..
> nothing..nothing except quiet :-)
> That's not to say Buddy never screams.. heh.. he'a a
>'Too.. but the late night scream-a-thons ended.
> He also tolerates Joey playing in his water dish <sigh>
> just what I want...2 splashers! Buddy loves to bathe in
> his water until there's more water on the floor and walls
> than in his dish :-)
> Twice now Buddy has had marathon scream-a-thons... for
> a few days each time. It takes that long for me to realize
> the DDR is unplugged :-O
> Once cos DH did some maintenance and forgot to plug it
> back in (of course he remembered to plug the washing
> machine back in ;-P)
> The second time I had unplugged it while sweeping...and
> forgot to plug it back in...
> We sure enjoy him being such a good bird! He's been so
> loving to everyone... my older 2 boys love being able
> to give him scritches again.
> ~misty
> (No, Jerry, you can't have the DDR back just yet! :-)
===================
From: 2tails (wagginta...@hotmail.com)
Subject: My Experience with the Doggy Do Right (And
Kitty Will Too) Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2001-07-04 20:45:19 PST
After using Jerry's training manual, I became curious
about the Doggy Do Right (DDR) machine, and a few
weeks ago I received one.
I thought the group might be interested in some things
I've noticed since using it. (This is a bit of an
understatement as I certainly expect a flurry of
responses... most of them will probably be nasty.
But we'll see.)
Anyway, at first I would leave it on only when I left
the house, but one day I forgot and left it on all night.
My dogs used to wake me up between 8 and 8:30
a.m. The morning after I left it on all night, they
slept until 9:30 a.m. At first I wondered why they had
slept in so late, and then I noticed that the DDR was on.
(And no, I'm not an early riser.) :-)
Now they consistently sleep until 9:30 or 10:00 a.m.,
unless I wake them up earlier. One night the power
went out, and the DDR was switched off. They woke
me around 8:30 that day.
The second thing was something my husband noticed. If
the light on the DDR is flashing, it is in "rest" mode...when
it's solid, it is playing the program. He came home,
the dogs were doing their usual growl and "bitey face"
rowdiness... when the machine's light became solid
(program on), they laid down in the same room with the
machine. Pepper even laid on her side and started taking
a little nap.
Often, I will see the dogs in the room with the DDR when
the program is playing, usually around their nap time.
That is, they will nap in the same room as the machine
and not in other areas of the house... even though their
"preferred" sleeping spot at other times seems to be my
bed.
The last two things I've noticed have been with my 7 yr
old Dalmatian, Beau. He is normally terrified of
thunderstorms, so much that he will try to crawl into my
lap, or he will shake and shed hair everywhere.
(Shedding hair is a symptom of stress I suppose... he
does the same thing at the vet's.) On Sunday, we had a
really severe thunderstorm, with hail, etc. When the
storm began, I turned the machine to play mode. He laid
on the floor next to where I was sitting. He still didn't
want to let me get out of his sight, but his behavior was
much improved from earlier episodes.
The last thing has to do with Beau and the vacuum
cleaner. The surest way for me to clear him out of
a room used to be for me to start vacuuming. He'd
race into another room and hide. Now, he will stay in
the same room. He's still wary of it, and leaves his
"escape route" open, but he will stay in the same room
while I'm using it, something he's never done before.
I've done no training to address these issues, but since
using the DDR for approximately three weeks, these
are some of the calmer behaviors that I've noticed.
As I said, I'm sure this will create a storm. May I say
in advance, that only polite posts will be considered
for a response by me.
Regards, Lisa
==============
"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1199-3BD...@storefull-235.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> Jerry has taken the time to help me out off the NG. I have a very
> loud cockatoo who has been having problems adjusting to my 8
> month old son.
> Joey is learning to walk. He likes to use Buddy's cage as a hold on
> for dear life object.
> Buddy wasn't exposed to toddlers prior to Joey.. my older
> two boys went through this stage in a different house where
> Buddy had his own room and the boys had only visits, not
> daily contact 24/7.
> Buddy has always been spooked by "tiny" humans. Joey
> has been driving him nuts! He showed his disapproval
> by non-stop screaming. A cockatoo scream can be heard
> a block away with all the widows shut <g> being in
> the house it makes your ears pop and your nerves crawl.
> Jerry sent me Free his DDR. He sent instructions on how
> to use it. He answered my questions quite politely.
> I have been using the DDR in my kitchen ( where Buddy is
> located~ teensy 4 room house) for 3 weeks.
> At first I noticed no difference in Buddy's behavior.
> Then I realized after a week that he no longer screamed
> for hours on end. This isn't to say he stopped completely
> <bg> he still demands his share of all meals. But he doesn't
> start screaming at 10 pm when he wants _everyone_ to go to bed.
> Last week he had a day where he screamed all day. My nerves
> were frazzled. I went to turn the DDR up a notch per Jerry's
> instructions.
> I discovered the DDR was shut off! I turned it back on
> and left it on the lowest setting. Buddy calmed back down
> and quit screaming.
> In the time that I've had the DDR on I've had a lot of
> c*ts come to my house. One I adopted and he's quite the
> sweetie. He's a yellow tiger named Gatomon ( means c*t
> monster) who is very friendly with my kids and Zelda.
> I may not like how Jerry treats other posters but I do
> like the methods he shares. Being on a limited budget
> I like things that are free. I also like the fact that
> I can e-mail him and get advice whenever I need it.
> Even my DH who is a technical minded kind of guy thinks
> the DDR is working. ( He went to Devry and has a degree
> in electronics, knows alot about radios and anything
> mechanical... he's a jack of all trades around the house
> <g>). He does NDT for a living.
> We don't expect to need the DDR forever.. As soon as
> Joey is walking, Buddy will realize that he's not a
> strange animal.. some kind of furless dog or c*t <bg>.
> So, yes, there are some of us out here who do appreciate
> Jerry's methods if not his condemnation of other "regulars".
> Honey, flies that sort of thing....
> ~misty
===============
Elaine McClung, President of Pet Rescue, Animal Commissioner
Brevard Co FL, writes:
Hi Jerry,
I received email from Mark Shaw on 10/6 which I just read today.
Sorry I didn't have time to get to it sooner. We have had a lot
going on in our area concerning animals. We formed a new Task
Force to address spay/neuter, pet overpopulation and animal
abuse. I needed to do a lot of research before the first meeting and
time was just not available for anything else.
Anyway the letter went on to say that we are in collusion, I tried
to defraud him, and have sent none of the materials that he has
asked for although he has yet to furnish the P. O. Box number that
he wanted them sent to in the first place. He goes on to state that
I am no longer eligible for the "fictions reward." All of this is in
answer to postings that prove I was "sharing" his email with you
which in his opinion was a breach of good manners. His email only
had terms and conditions of the reward which I would consider
"public information."
Be that as it may, I would like to state that you had my permission
to post any email I have sent you regarding DDR including this
email.
I'm very sorry that you have to put up with this type of situation
from someone that obviously never intended to make good on his
reward offer in the first place.
I had a call from a friend of mine with a very aggressive cat. I
have loaned her my DDR for a few weeks to see if it will calm JR
down. I will let you know the results. She goes to the same holistic
vet that I go to and he is also interested.
In case Mark does post to the list again I would like to say that I
do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it has helped
my dogs and cats. I have entirely too much to do, to worry about his
opinions or reward.
The only reason I was willing to apply for the reward was on your
behalf as I do think your product is a valuable tool in helping with
aggression and other behavior problems.
I am in Feral Cat Network (we spay and neuter approximately 100
feral cats a month), I am also a member of a local AKC dog
obedience club, member of a local AKC agility club, president of
Pet Rescue, board member of the Alliance for Care and Welfare of
Animals (on the board are: county commissioner, vet. rep., rep. from
AKC dog club, CFA cat club, assistant County manager, head of
animal control, director of two different shelters, etc.) and Space
Coast Feline Network http://www.spacecoastfelinenet work.com
I listed these not to be on an ego trip but to let Mark know that I
am involved with animals and have very little time to play games
with him also I would not recommend your product if I did not
believe in it.
Please feel free to post this email as it has no copyright on it as
did Mark Shaw's last email to me.
Take care Jerry and don't let the Mark's of the world get you down.
Elaine
Thank you, Elaine. I have been trying to educate the mark's of this
world, with some occasional successes. I guess that's variable
reinforcement?
Yours, Jerry.
=======
> > We have no idea what Jerry does in Real Life,
Jerry masquerades as The Amazing Puppy Wizard IN REAL LIFE.
> > and right here all we do is "talk the talk".
Yeah. Ask for some of these MENTAL CASS SUCCESSFUL CASE HISTORIES.
> Jerry CONS ignorant people out of their hard-earned money
You mean, by SELLIN HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual?
> in real life.
IN REAL LIFE The Amazing Puppy Wizard IDENTIFIES EXXXPOSES
and DISCREDITES dog abusing mental cases like tommy and his
punk thug coward mental case pals RIGHT HERE where it's ALL
INDELLIBLY ARCHIVED FOREVER <{); ~ ) >
> And if you do just a little checking around,
> you can find out where and how he does it.
INDEEDY. IT'S ALL IN YOUR FREE COPY OF The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual, you know, the WON you WARN folks NOT TO STUDY.
> >> Talking the talk is a *lot* easier to do than
> >> actually TRAINING a dog, to even a moderately
> >> high level of performance.
Like your field dogs, tommy? HOWE COME you don't
publish your FIELD TRIAL WINS RIGHT HERE, tommy?
> >Training a dog by remote control is extremely cool, though. :-)
INDEEDY. And FOR FREE is EVEN COOLER, AIN'T IT, Lucy.
> It's also HOGWASH.
Looks like tommy can't cope noMOORE.
> But if you want to drink his Kool-Aid,
The Amazing Puppy Wizard does NOT recommend
white sugar, tommy...
> there's not much I can do about it.
Ahhh, but THERE IS, tommy. You can GET THE
HEEL HOWETA THIS BUSINESS, tommy. REMEMBER?
> I couldn't help the folks in Jonestown, either, unfortunately.
JUST LIKE HOWE you COULDN'T HEELP the DEAD DOGS
you've JERKED CHOKED and MURDERED RIGHT HERE.
> >> > Perhaps, if everybody could get a bit of his craziness,
> >> > people would start to treat the animals they love in a
> >> > kinder, better way;
Naaaah. WE GOT TO GET RID OF THESE MENTAL CASES FIRST.
> >> If everybody could be just as crazy, wrong, detestable,
> >> mean-spirited, close-minded, hateful, pathologically
> >> incapable of telling the truth...wait? Am I describing
> >> Jerry here? Or the Taliban?
Neither, tommy. The Taliban are HONORABLE. You and
your punk thug coward mental case pals are lying
dog abusing punk thug cowards who don't deserve
to wash the feet of the Taliban patriots and martyrs.
> > If the Taliban had put an unorthodox dog training
> > method on the web I'd >certainly have at least the
> > curiosity to READ it; wouldn't you?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
> >> Jerry's lack of RPGs and IEDs aside,
Hunh?
> >> are there any other notable differences?
> >> I think not.
PROBLEMO, tommy. YOU DON'T THINK AT ALL or
you wouldn't POST your IDIOCY here where
EVERY WON can LOOK UP YOUR OWN POSTED CASE
HISTORY of HURTING INTIMIDATING and MURDERIN
dogs and LYIN abHOWET it till The Amazing
Puppy Wizard came here and IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED
and DISCREDITED YOU. REMEMBER NHOWE, tommy?
> >> This world is a much better place *because*
> >> there is only one Jerry Howe.
INDEED. And HE'S made this world HEEL for you
and your MENTAL CASE pals, REMEMBER tommy?
> >> >perhaps they'd even treat their children and
> >> their fellow humans in a kinder, better way.
Naaah, THAT would be DISRESPECTFUL of their abusive
parents and would make them FEEL GULITY for CONtradicting
them. PERHAPS their PAIN is too much to bear to FORGIVE
their parents for ABUSING them... it's all part of the
heelin process.
> >> If you truly cared about treating your fellow humans
> >> in a civil manner, you wouldn't come here and insult
> >> us all, and basically imply
IMPLY??? There AIN'T NO NEED to "IMPLY" NUTHIN when
WE GOT YOUR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORIES to REVIEW and
QUOTE, tommy. REMEMBER?
> >> that we're all monsters, barbarians, etc.
Don't forget liars and mental cases, tommy.
> > Actually, I'm just astounded that no one of you
> > can take Jerry's method step by step and prove
> > what is wrong with it, in spite of the obvious
> > fact that it works.
Oh, THAT'S on accHOWENT of it's ONLY a S-HOWEND distraction.
> Why???
On accHOWENT of IT WORKS like freakin MAGICK.
> That's what COMPETITION is all about.
You thing we should go HOWET and murder some
innocent birdies to compete with you and lyin
frosty dahl and susan frazer? You're a bunch
of murderin lying dog abusing mental cases.
> The chance to TEST the effectiveness of one method,
> one trainer, etc. against another.
You mean LIKE HOWE HE DONE RIGHT HERE in The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's Archives, tommy?
> You should ask Jerry why he refuses to compete.
On accHOWENT of HE'S DONE, tommy. You MISSED IT
while you was busy teachin professora melanie
HOWE to jerk and choke her little Papilion Skeeter
on her pronged spiked pinch choke collar to break
DOMINANCE PISSIN, REMEMBER tommy?
> I.e., walk the walk.
Hey? Let's ALL walk the walk, tommy? Let's
form a Conga line and BOOGALOO the heel
HOWETA here...
> Ain't gonna happen.
PERHAPS it will... "with a WON an a TWO and
a WON TWO THREE"... Just pick a place in line
and MAKE YOUR BUDDY SMILE.
> --
> Handsome Jack Morrison
> *gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail
"Anthony Testa" <testa52...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:c603fe9c.02032...@posting.google.com...
> m...@bangnetcom.com (Mark Shaw) wrote in message
<news:lmWo8AeR...@panix.com>...
> > In article<c603fe9c.0203260607.77c28...@posting.google.com>,
> > testa52...@aol.com (Anthony Testa) wrote:
> > [...]
> > > Jerry, after reading some of the threads in the news
> > > group, I can't for the life of me understand why this
> > > many people are so dang blind or ignorant.
> > > You just keep plugging away at what you do,
> > > because you my friend are a life saver!!!
:
> > Okay, who the heck ARE you, really?
:
> Who am I? My real name is posted. The story you
> have read is true. We were at witts end, found Jerry's
> web page by happenstance, wrote to him almost exactly
> what you read, he gave me his sugestions, told me
> what my results would be including a time line and,
> you know what?
:
> He was and still is, right on the money.
:
> I don't care if he's a warlock, a professor, disgrunted
> Entomologist, or a man with a nitche that makes the
> sciences itchy, he saved the day AND a dog's life.
:
> We were given suggestions from Medication, to a
> Behavioral Specialist. I decided that instead of creating
> a Jerry Garcia or pay 125.00 dollars an hour for my
> dog to lay on a couch to be freudiated, I decided Jerry
> Howe's method seemed to be more humane and sereine.
> It worked, end of story.
:
> A. Testa
========================
My student Anthony summed it all up:
"Alpha" <sween...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:bsf69.5447$g9.1...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
> Well there you go, I was willing to believe but then jerry
> it was another hallucination of yours, just like all those
> thank you letters you write, a lie, a fabrication, a wank...
:
> > From: TESTA52601 (testa52...@aol.com)
> > Subject: Re: Thank you Jerry Howe
> > Date: 2002-03-28 10:01:34 PST
:
> > Alpha,
:
> > It's uneducated, ball breakers like you that create dismay
> > throughout this society. Get a life. you took apart a letter
> > from someone who has shown nothing but love and caring,
> > including lots of money and twisted it to YOUR point.
:
> > Ever consider politics? I challenge you to show me your
> > credentials and results you come up with. The things I did
> > with the dog WAS against MY wishes. However, I listen
> > to pencil neck geeks that sit behind a monitor and get 30
> > different suggestions. This dog could not be happier if she
> > was gnawing on all three of your legs.
:
> > The bottom line to my letter was to tell people "don't
> > knock it until you try it"
:
> > P.S. Write me personally if you have any credentials......
The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >
> --
> Handsome Jack Morrison
BWEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >
Prettie...@muchomail.com
morrison aka DOGMAN, you miserable anonymHOWES lying dog abusing
punk thug coward active acute chronic long term mental case,
Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
> Note: The author of this message requested that it not be archived.
> This message will be removed from Groups in 6 days (Mar 20, 12:19 pm).
HOWE COME you set your informative posts to EXXXPIRE, tommy?
HOWE COME you're a anonymHOWES lying dog abusing ignoramHOWES
and coward, tommy?
HOWE COME you REFUSE to IDENTIFY yourself or your kennle name, tommy?
> On 13 Mar 2006 16:35:52 GMT, Rocky <2d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote:
>
LUCKY THING your pal matty SELLS boardin, ain't it, tommy?
> The kennel is important, but the dog is more important.
INDEED?
The QUESTION was HOWE to INTRODUCE two fear aggressive dogs, tommy.
> Most dogs do very well in a kennel environment,
Yeah. The O.P. DON'T WANT to BOARD his dogs, tommy.
The QUESTION IS HOWE to INTRODUCE his dog to the
resident dog, REMEMBER tommy? You got ANY advice?
> for short periods, provided they get some time each
> day to play, rough-house, etc. with other dogs,
> keepers, etc. Especially if they get visited by
> their owners.
That's ABSURD, tommy. Boarding dogs should NOT be
EXXXPOSED to other boarding dogs nor should they
PLAY ROUGH-HOWES with their attendants <{); ~ ) >
> Unless the dog is a special case, he should do
> just fine at most any reputable kennel.
Like YOURS, tommy?
HOWE would we FIND a REPUTABLE KENNEL like YOURS, tommy?
> --
> Handsome Jack Morrison
You sez:
> At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
> dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
> *not* constitute a "beating."
And then you sez:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and shin. Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
> He's going to have Fr. John call me back with more information.
Yeah, but you're a PROVEN LIAR and DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE
and YOU MAKE MONEY off of SELLIN THEIR BOOKS and MOVIES,
tommy, so your WORD is that of a SPAMMER and SCAMMER, to boot:
Date: 1999/01/15
Subject: Re: Another mouthy lab
Get this book:
"The Art of Raising A Puppy," by the Monks of New Skete
If you can't find it locally, you can obtain it
through my Web site (see below).
You'll need it for more than just the usual puppy
"mouthing" problems, anyway.
And good luck with your Lab puppy!
--
Dogman
> [Fr. John just called me back(on my cell phone), but I
> was in my truck and apparently in a dead zone of some kind,
You been in a DEAD ZONE since DAY WON P.T.A.P.W.E. (Pryor
to The Amazing Puppy Wizard Era). BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHHAAA!!!
> so we couldn't hear each other very well.
NO PROBLEMO, tommy. We'll just accept you WORD for
what you'd LIKE us to BELIEVE.
LIKE THIS:
From: dog...@i1.net (Dogman)
Date: 1999/01/17
Subject: Re: Training book by a bunch of monks
Upon my return to the Cuckoo's Nest, Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:22:02 GMT,
khay...@cave-systems.on.ca (Kevin Haryett) says:
"The Art of Raising A Puppy," by the Monks of New Skete
*Very* good book...but forget the stuff about "alpha rolls."
--
Dogman
From: bob...@aol.com (Bob Maida)
Date: 2000/06/24
Subject: Re: Best behavior book?
HI,
2 books, I would recommed are Understanding Your
Dog by Dr Michael Fox Mother Knows Best by Carol
Benjamin The Art of Raising A Puppy by The Monks of
New Skete (and NO, the Monks book does not have the
"alpha roll" in it)
------------------
Seems WON of you BELIEVERS in TRUTH JUSTICE and
The AMERICAN WAY is a doGgamened LIAR, eh tommy?
We know who THAT is, tommy... it's YOUR PAL gumbah
booby maida, captain arthur haggerty's PROTEGE.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAAHHAHAAAA!!!
NOT FOR NUTHIN, other than to substantiate
that you mentally ill lying dog abusing punk
thug coward mental cases will do and say ANY
THING to defend your alleged RIGHT to HURT
INTIMDIATE and MURDER innocent critters.
> We arranged for me to call him back tomorrow,
> this time on a land line, to discuss it further.
What's to DISCUSS, tommy? You're a liar and dog
abuser like your mentally ill pat booby, and the
monks are a bunch of heavy handed ignorant puppy
milling LHOWETS, like yourself, tommy.
> He said he was very happy to talk about it,
That so? Let's talk abHOWET YOUR DOGS, tommy?
Let's talk abHOWET your CHUMPION FIELD DOGS,
eh tommy? AIN'T YOU PRHOWED of your kennels?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
> because they were very proud of the testing they do,
That so? And they're VERY PRHOWED of THIS:
From: "Jerry Howe" <j...@cfl.rr.com>
Date: 2000/09/19
Subject: The Monks Of New Skete
Recommend These Disciplinary Measures:
The Monks look charming on the outside, but
they have heavy handed techniques.
I've seen advice as to how to hit your dog coming
from them, and lots of other non productive, even
dangerous advice.
While I realize that your definition of abuse differs
greatly from mine, I have spent most of the last thirty-
six years retraining dogs brought up and trained by
abusive techniques.
In The Art of Raising a Puppy , copyright 1991, the
Monks of New Skete recommend these disciplinary measures:
1. Scruff shake. (recommended for puppies, 8-12 weeks)
Grab scruff of neck, shake firmly, bark "NO!"
2. Shakedown. Grab sides of throat with both hands,
lifting dog's front feet off floor, stare, shake
several times, and bark "NO!"
3. "Using a firm cuff underneath the chin with your
opened hand...To make this correction effectively,
your dog must be anchored in a sitting position with
your left hand holding onto his collar.
As you make eye contact with your dog, cuff the
underside of his mouth with your opened right
hand, rapping him sharply several times, as you
say NO!" (recommended for 5-6 month old puppies)
4. Stick finger down throat to stop mouthing or
squeeze and shake muzzle hard enough to elicit
a whine, and bark "NO!"
5. To stop jumping, grab front paws of jumping
pup, and force him to remain in that position
long enough to become uncomfortable.
6. Leash Pop with choke collar (Also pupularized
as the Margolis Jerk)
Those actions and attitudes are behaviors your
dog will learn to copy, and apply to you.
Let me start by calling attention to the recent
notoriety of shaken baby syndrome. Although dogs
have a loose scruff, the brain damage can result
just the same, and disk damage may occur.
The ubiquitous leash pop is my number one gripe.
It is recommended and used by almost everyone.
The sharp corrections on leash continue throughout
the life of the dog.
It is recommended they be increased in severity
and frequency as the dog becomes more resistant
and the trainer thinks the dog knows what is
expected of him but the dog refuses to do it.
(Dogs don't do things out of spite!) Nerve damage
can result from leash corrections. Makes me nauseous
to hear people say that dogs don't feel pain the
same way we do.
As a society we don't condone treating our children
or employees that way. What makes abuse O.K. for
animals? Force, abuse, and punishment do not have
any place in a learning environment!
Most of the mistakes our dogs make are not even
understood by the dog to be mistakes. The punishment
is not understood, and behavior problems result
from the abuse.
BUT YOU SEZ:
"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens"
HOWE abHOWET all them DEAD DOGS you TRAINED RIGHT
HERE that your TERRORIZM DIDN'T SAVE, tommy?
Like Robert Crim's, kwbrown's, laura arlov's,
tara o.' DEAD DOGS, FOR EXXXAMPLE, tommy?
> and the dogs they produce.
You mean, LIKE THIS?:
From: Tara <taragre...@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:58:51 GMT
Subject: Re: good dog training books?
I've personally seen their methods (as applied by
them) NOT work on dogs they themselves have bred.
IMO, their methods actually made the underlying problems
*worse*. In three cases, where they both bred and trained
the dogs, they subsequently washed their hands of the dogs
and suggested euthanasia....and then promptly tried to
talk the owners into taking another one of their own pups.
<snip>
Since I have serious issues and doubts about the
practices and ethics of the Monks, I obviously
only support the latter two ;-)
Tara
Of curse SHE'S likeWIZE, a DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE, eh tommy?
> He named his vet, a Dr. Wolski, and welcomed me
> to call him, too. I can get the number tomorrow,
> when I call again. Yes, I intend to report back
> tomorrow,
Well that's kindly of you, tommy... considerin
YOUR BUSINESS DEPENDS on SELLIN THEIR BOOKS.
> after we've talked and I've gathered
> additional information FIRST-HAND.
Yeah, but comin from you tommy, it's WORTHLESS, at best.
Your WORD AIN'T NO GOOD here abHOWETS, tommy.
> He also welcomed me to drop by for a visit.
THEY SELL PUPPIES, tommy, and he's 2,000 miles away.
> The Monks are always happy to have people visit,
> and no appointment is required. Yep, sounds just
> like a puppy mill to me...sheesh.]
INDEEDY! They got a VERY WELL STAFFED PUPPY MILL.
> I also recommended to him that they might want
> to put something on their website about the testing.
You AIN'T blaming BAD TEMPERAMENTS on GENES again,
are you tommY? Do they got a GENTIC TEST for FEAR
AGGRESSION, tommy?
> They have their own way of testing temperaments,
THEY HURT INTIMIDATE AND MURDER DOGS, like HOWE you do, tommy.
> of which they write about in their books.
THEY'RE DOG ABUSERS AND THEY ADMIT IT:
> A quote from the Monks:
> "We repeat, these situations may merit physical discipline.
> Since no book can pretend to analyze every individual dog
> and situation, we feel obligated to emphasize from the
> outset that discipline is never an arbitrary training
> technique to be applied to each and every dog for all
> offenses. We do, however, believe that physical and verbal
> discipline can be an effective technique. The best policy if
> you experience any of the above problems is to consult a
> qualified trainer or veterinarian for evaluation of your
> individual situation....
> "If discipline is decided upon as a training technique, it
> should be the proper technique. We feel we have developed
> several methods that depend less on violent physical force
> than timing, a flair for drama, and the element of surprise.
> We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to map out
> these methods, rather than simply skip the topic because it
> is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know what to do."
> >> Well, it certainly sounds as if their breeding program
> >> went into a steep decline after an auspicious beginning-
> >> -perhaps as a result of misguidedly trying to keep up
> >> with the demand.
PERHAPS THAT'S HOWE COME the GSD 'WENT INTO DECLINE,' eh tommy?
> > Perhaps. There was a time when they produced nice dogs.
Sez WHO?
> > They had a good guide for their breeding program at that time.
A GUIDE???
> > The one person who got a dog from them early on said
> > that the dog was about as fabulous as they get, and
> > hooked her on GSDs for life. Which is why she bought
> > from them again.
>
> And I think that if you poke around a bit, that's
> more like what you'll hear from the vast majority
> of current Monks owners, too.
You mean, all but those who GOT BURNED by their PUPPY
MILL STOCK and their ABUSIVE METHODS, tommy?
> The Monks pace their breedings to the numbers of
> monks they have on hand and available for assignment
> to the pups.
INDEED?
> When they have more monks in residence, they are
> able to produce more pups, and vice versa. They
> have fewer monks these days, so they're producing
> fewer pups.
So as their monkey shines are on the decline, likeWIZE
their PUPPY MILL BUSINESS, tommy? BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHHAA!!!
> Demand for their pups has never been greater.
Accordin to WHOM, tommy?
> But they no longer allow names to be placed on a waiting list.
> They just can't deal with the demand, so they don't even try.
That's ABSURD, tommy.
> When they do plan a breeding, they are now going to
> announce it on their web site, and then take reservations
> for pups (which may or may not be honored, depending on
> the litter size.) First come, first served. Then they'll
> start the process all over again for the next planned breeding.
>
> At least that's the current plan.
So, after all these years they're STILL FIGGRERIN IT HOWET, tommy?
> >> It sounds as if they must have incorporated at
> >> least one sire into their program that turned
> >> out to have less than desirable genes.
> >
> > I've heard of a female who was put down because
> > she stopped producing.
In keepin with TRUE puppy mill fashion, eh tommy?
> > Apparently, she should've never been bred at all,
> > because she was overly aggressive. This is third
> > hand information though, and I have no way of
> > verifying it.
Well, tommy can just ask friar tuck when he speaks
to him tommorow to verify that they're not dog abusing
puppy millers like hisself. BWEEEEAAHAHAHAAAAA!!!
> Then why even pass it on?
On accHOWENT of you're dealin with DOG
ABUSING MENTAL CASES, tommy. IT DON'T
MATTER WHAT THE ISSUE IS, you're DEALIN
WITH DOG ABUSING LYIN MENTAL CASES here.
From: "dogtraining" <b...@basta.net>
Date: 1999/03/29
Subject: Re: Monks (was Lab. Puppy questions)
The Monks live in New Skette (spelling not sure) which
is upstate New York... the system they use is by having
the dog all day with them while they eat, work, and talk
to god... they are monks of the greek ortodox church (I
believe...) the system is excelent providing you do not
condem "harsh" methods...!
I hope the information is useful to you....
Regards
> Hopefully it didn't come from the same person
> who claimed to have paid $7000 for her PUPPY(!)?
Well, some folks will say ANY THING to make themselves
S-HOWEN MOORE IMPORTANT than they really are, eh tommy?
> Maybe you were taught in school to rely on third-hand
> information, and not just second-hand information(!),
> right? So why not go for broke,
And take tommy's word for it.
> and now try relying on fourth or even fifth-hand
> information, the next time you decide to slander
> a breeder's reputation?
Like yours, tommy? You're a ETHICKAL BREEDER yet
you REFUSE TO IDENTIFY YOURSELF and IN FACT DENY
who you are KNOWN TO BE. You DO REMEMBER HOWER
CONVERSATION on YOUR PHONE at tommy sorenson's
PUPPY MILL, tommy? DON'T YOU? You didn't wanna
TALK BUSINESS with The Amazing Puppy Wizard on
accHOWENT of you're a lyin dog abusing punk thug
coward mental case puppy miller.
> Maybe you can find someone who talked to someone
> who talked to someone who said that she got it
> from her cousin, twice removed, who got it from
> her landlady's maid, who got it from her sister's
> chauffeur, who overheard it being whispered into
> a cell phone by a swarthy looking gentleman standing
> on the corner of Fifth and Broadway, and wearing a
> backpack?
INDEED THAT would be MOORE RELIABLE than RELYING on
the WORD of the BOOK SALESMAN for the DOG ABUSERS
and PUPPY MILLERS.
> You are either a very naive person, or you're not
> nearly as smart as I once thought you were.
Sez it all, eh tommy?
> >> Perhaps that's why they seem to have pulled back
> >> severely. (I wonder how many litters they were
> >> producing per year, and how many they produce now?)
>
> > All good questions. More than they should've is my guess.
>
> Keep in mind that the monks, compared with most breeders,
Like yourself, tommy? TELL US abHOWET YOUR OWN KENNELS, tommy?
> have a *lot* of help.
AS EXXXAMPLED by your pal lying frosty dahl when
she DISCOVERED CANNIBALISM in Labradorable dogs
when she left a NEW MOM with her litter so she
could SELL PUPPIES, REMEMBER tommy?
> That is, each and every monk has puppy
> raising/training responsibilities.
THEY HURT and INTIMDIATE dogs, tommy.
> They also have the help of a nearby convent,
> staffed with nuns, if they need more help.
So that LEGITIMIZES their PUPPY MILL and ABUSE?
PERHAPS the good Sisters are trying to SAVE THEM, tommy,
JUST LIKE HOWE you SAVE DOGS from the needle, eh tommy?
> They don't compete with their dogs because they have
> prayer and chapel responsibilities to tend to on week-ends,
That so? Are they SeventhDayEpiscopalJews, tommy?
They got HIGHER BUSINESS dealin on Saturday AND Sunday?
> when most competitions are being held.
You mean as a PROFESSIONAL SHOW DOG BREEDER and TRAINER
you don't know they got THURSDAY FRIDAY and MONDAY SHOWES?
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
There's NEVER been such a LAME EXXXCUSE as THAT WON, tommy.
> They do however strongly encourage their buyers to
> compete and test, etc., and they rely on their results
> and periodic reports back to them for additional breeding
> information.
Oh GOODY! You can LOOK UP THEIR SHOWE DOG HISTORY in AKC, tommy.
HOWE many monks dogs do you SEE makin CHUMPIONSHIPS?
> >> I think both you and Jack have a point. Bad breeders
> >> they may have become, commercial breeders yes, but
> >> perhaps the term "puppy mill" is misplaced?
PERHAPS it's just the TERMINOLOGY, eh tommy? PUPPY MILLER
kinda makes your skin itch, don't it, tommy. Let's talk
abHOWET tommy soronen's kennels, MO, USA, tommy? You're
RIGHT IN THE HEART of PUPPY MILL COUNTRY, ain't you, tommy.
> >> I don't know exactly where to draw that line. "Ethical"
> >> breeders in the accepted sense they definitely are not
> >> if they don't do standard health testing at least.
> []
Ask brother john or friar tuck if they ACCPET their
REJECTED PUPPIES back from their BUYERS with a FULL
REFUND, like ANY ETHICKAL BREEDER DOES, eh tommy?
> > Maybe the Monks were just unethical breeders.
Naaah, they're a bunch of IGNORAMUSES, like tommy
and the rest of these lying dog abusing punk thug
coward MENTAL CASES who post their IDIOCY here abHOWETS.
> What *proof* do you have that the Monks have ever
> done anything in an unethical way?
Only REPORTED CASE HISTORIES we got RIGHT HERE,
and the INFORMATION in their very own books, tommy.
> Even once?
We've been through that a few times already, tommy.
You MENTAL CASES got a HABIT of askin the SAME IDIOTIC
QUESTIONS despite having GOT the IDIOTIC TRUTH answered,
when YOU DON'T LIKE THE TRUTH, tommy.
> Sheesh.
Yeah.. you DENY the TRUTH and EXXXPET folks to
BELIEVE an anonymHOWES VULGAR DOG ABUSING COWARD
like yourself, an ANONYMHOWES COWARD and LIAR,
tommy, like yourself. A LYING DOG ABUSING ANONYMHOWES
PUNK THUG COWARD MENTAL CASE, like yourself, tommy.
> > Maybe they were "good" puppy millers.
Of curse, tommy. They mighta made a little MISTAKE.
> What kind of puppy mill has a monk assigned to *each*
> puppy at birth, and who then gets to live inside with
> the monk, who then cares for him, socializes him, trains
> him, feeds him, etc., until he's old enough to eventually
> be sold to his permanent owners?
BWEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!! THEY'RE DOG ABUSERS LIKE YOURSELF.
From: x...@yyy.berkeley.edu
Date: 1995/05/13
Subject: Re: GSD pups from the Monks of New Skete; how much?
I have met a couple of GSDs from their breeding and have
found them to be on the shy to timid side. However, I
have no idea what their owners were like and how much
socialization they provided, etc. Just don't expect
miracles because someone is an author.
> Take as long as you need to find one.
THEY'RE A FULLY STAFFED PUPPY MILL, tommy. BIG DEAL.
THEY HURT and INTIMDIATE dogs, tommy.
> > Either way, I am not about to line their pockets.
> > And I can't help but object to others who knowingly
> > or unknowingly do the same.
>
> Yeah, I know. You can't help yourself from
> slandering people, a la Jerry Howe.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard aka Jerry HOWE don't know
or CARE abHOWET the monkies BREEDING practices, HE
only cares abHOWET their ABUSE of innocent dumb
critters in their BOOKS that YOU SELL, REMEMBER tommy?
> What a piece of work you turned out to be.
Let's not throw the baby HOWET with the bathwater, eh tommy?
> Sheesh.
Let's talk abHOWET beatin dogs to HOWEsbreak them, tommy?
> By the way, you might want to call this number:
>
> 518-677-3828
>
> Ask for Fr. John.
>
> He also invites you (or anyone else) to visit
> the Monks facilities, too.
THEY SELL PUPPIES, tommy. THEY NEED folks to SEE THEIR PUPPIES.
> Yep, they really sound like a puppy mill.
INDEEDY, tommy. A FULLY STAFFED PUPPY MILL.
But THAT AIN'T THE PROBLEM, tommy:
From: "Kieron Dodds" <nospam.kdo...@nospam.email.msn.com>
Date: 1998/03/15
Subject: Re: Monks of New Skete
Just as a bit of a counterpoint, my trainer has a Great
Pyrenees looking for a home right now that was *ruined*
by these books. Not all methods are valid for all dogs
or all owners or all dog/owner combinations.
While these books may work for you and others and dogs
you have worked, I've found the practices within to be
significantly less reliable than other methods, even
when properly applied, especially the "shake", even if
the methods do work for many owners and dogs.
Personally, I've seen far too many disastrous results
to recommend these books to anyone (sight unseen).
IOW, one can't really recommend a book or method without
first evaluating the owner/dog combo and anyone reading
such recommendations should remember this and remember
to try other methods when the ones they are using fail.
> <boggle>
You want BOGGLE, tommy?:
From: "Avrama Gingold" <avr...@mindspring.com>
Date: 1999/11/25
Subject: Re: Recommendations on Puppy training Books
Personally, I do not care for the Monks book.
(Even Job Michael Evans, one of its two co-authors,
later rethought the "alpha roll" advice.)
My main objection is that it assumes the dog will
be raised in the same kind of milieu as the New
Skete monastery, which is very far from accurate.
But we KNOW professora "CHIN CHUCK ABSOLUTELY
DOESN'T MEAN HIT THE DOG" gingold is likeWIZE
a LIAR and DOG ABUSER, ain't that correct, tommy.
Let's talk abHOWET your kennels, tommy. You MUST
be VERY PRHOWED of your dogs. Too bad you're SO
HUMBLE you WON'T BRAG on your own KENNEL NAME, tommy.
AIN'T IT.
> The horror. The horror.
No, the HORROR is, you're a liar and dog abusing
coward and you're AFRAID to ADMIT WHO YOU ARE.
But THAT'S IN The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives
from that nite you and tommy and joey got STIFF
and FORGOT to CHANGE YOUR SCREEN NAME and email
address and sent TOMMY SORONSEN'S email into US
RIGHT HERE... then you DENIED it again... despite
The Amazing Puppy Wizard TALKIN TO YOU on the phone
after HE got your number from HERE, tommy.
LIKE THIS:
From: osi...@deltaville.net (Michael Erskine)
Date: 12 Aug 2004 10:09:05 -0700
Subject: My GSD bit me.
The question:
I have a four year old male GSD. He growls at
me sometimes. When he growls at me he stares
me in the face and lays his ears back.
The New Skete books say that the dog should
not be allowed to do that. They suggest shaking
down the dog by grabing the dog on the sides of
his neck and picking him off his front feet, then
giving the dog the same sort of treatment the dog
would give another if it were challenging him.
Namely getting in the dogs face and letting the
dog know you are the alpha dog.
Well, my dog bit me clearly he felt that I was
not convincing enough or he bit me out of fear.
Anyone got ideas on what to do with this
dog that might help him to decide that he
wants to follow and that he has nothing to
fear from me?
Special aside from michael to The Amazing
Puppy Wizard:
---------------- CAVEAT -------------------------
Now HOWE, you have had your say. Just shut up and
let these other people have a chance to say something
themselves. Your name calling and insults are not necessary.
I have all the information from you I need. I also have
my OWN mind and I need to make up MY OWN MIND.
I'm sorry but I am not one of your dogs, get it?
-------------------END CAVEAT
BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> --
> Handsome Jack Morrison
> *gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail
>
Here's a few UNBIASED reviews of the BOOKS YOU SELL, tommy:
From: black...@dog-play.com
Date: 1997/12/21
Subject: Monks of New Skete - video review
Tape 1:
Although it was interesting I think it won't be
"useful" to the average person who resorts to video
tape. It did not appear to have a teaching goal
beyond a general explanation of philosophy. The
presentation was so rambling that it left a general
impression, but nothing concrete in my mind.
If you are general new to dogs or dog training I don't
think this tape will offer a flash of enlightenment.
Tape 2:
I just don't think that the average newbie is going to
look at it as say "Its important to me to find out how my
breeder raised the puppy before I got it."
As a primary source of information on puppy socialization
the tape fails except for those people who are skilled at
extracting information from the documentary format. For
many people information needs to be presented in a more
bulleted format to communicate and educate successfully.
The downside is that the person viewing the tape may
have a dog with a very different basic temperament
than the GSDs favored by the Monks.
Properly applying the techniques used to different
temperaments may take a level of sensitivity that
many novice owners lack. For that reason I think that
another video - Ian Dunbar's "Sirius Puppy Training"
was more successful in achieving a good introduction
to starting the puppy off right.
The primary caution I would give is the same as before -
the dogs used are primarily stout of temperament - some
are over rambunctious and friendly-dominent - but the
full scope of temperaments was not addressed.
All the dogs were large breeds. The methodology can be
useful to all breeds - large and small - but some adjustment
needs to be made for both size and temperament.
I don't think enough attention was given to that aspect.
So if you have a dog over say 40 pounds, and the dog is
neither fearful nor growling/biting, then this tape can
provide some useful advice and demonstration.
The timing and reactions of the Monks is a skill
that has been learned to the point that it becomes
automatic.
Although they explain what they are doing and why
in my experience it is really hard for the novice
to just see how what they are doing is different.
I know not everyone is comfortable with
the modified Koehler style promoted by
the Monks -
From: qbt...@v1.arg (Dogman)
Date: 1997/08/21
Subject: Re: Monks of New Skeet & "praise"
On a cold day in Hell, Thu, 21 Aug 1997 15:38:38 GMT,
sekh...@removeme.4thcoast.com (Rebecca Allbritton) wrote:
>
> In "How to be Your Dog's Best Friend," the Monks have a
> section on praise. They advise something that I'm not sure
> I agree with them about, but I may not be thinking of it
> in the same way they are.
> What they say is that you should only "praise" when the
> dog has done something to be praised for (sit, heel, go
> to the bathroom on command, fetch, etc.)
> I can sort of understand that: I guess you want praise to
> be like a treat, & don't want it to be devalued if they can
> get it for not doing anything.
> Unfortunately, I spend a lot of time just petting my dog,
> telling her how wonderful she is, how good she is & what
> a sweetie she is, while we hang out together.
> I *like* talking to my dog while petting her, or even moving
> about the house doing other stuff. She wags her tail vigorously
> every time she sees me, but gets even happier when she hears my
> voice.
> I guess I have 2 main questions here. First, if you accept the
> idea that you shouldn't praise your dog when it hasn't "worked"
> for it, what exactly *is* praise? My dog doesn't seem able to
> distinguish between "Good Girl!" and "What a Sweetie!" when
> they're said in the same tone of voice (she wags & pants equally
> to both phrases.) Is the praise in the tone of voice, or in the
> key words? How should I talk to my dog when not "praising"?
>Or should I even worry about it?
[...]
Rebecca, I wouldn't worry about this at all, eh?
If your dog is responding well to your training (i.e.,
is performing satisfactorily), keep doing whatever it
is you're doing.
The premise behind witholding praise except for training
is simply as you have already suspected, to increase it's
EFFECT. But if your training is going well, don't let
that stop you from petting your dog, etc., when you're not
training, etc.
The same goes for food rewards (e.g., treats). To make
food more EFFECTIVE, withhold it from the dog when you're
not training and don't train your dog when he has a full
stomach. Wait until he's HUNGRY.
On the other hand, if your dog's mind starts to wander
during training and isn't responding as well as it used
to, cut out all priase except for during training and
for positive responses.
Ciao!
--
Dogman
From: dog...@i1.net (Dogman) - Find messages by this author
Date: 1999/05/12
Subject: Re: Should I correct my dog's growling?
While I was listening to the Miles Davis CD, "Kind Of Blue," and
drinking a little Booker's, on Wed, 12 May 1999 17:05:19 GMT, canis55
<cani...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
> It seems he's growling at you when "your back is turned."
> This may be the result of negative or aversion type training.
> The monks of new skeet (keepers of the alpha wolf flame),
> describe this same behavior in the latter part of they're
> popular book, How To Be Your Best Friend. They say something
> to the effect that the other wolves in the pack will always
> challenge the so called alpha male whenever he is vulnerable
> or becomes weak. Some way to live, huh?
This is just the kind of stupid, cheap shot bull
ca ca I'm always talking about.
This schmuck does absolutely *nothing* to actually help
the poster at all, he just takes shots at the Monks, pack
hierarchy theory, alpha theory, etc. (what? you don't have
any problem with the Theory of Gravity, too?), and automatically
blames this dog's "growling" on negative or aversion type training!
Yet another Kenny Freakin' King wannabe!
Hell, he'd blame cancer on the Monks if he could.
--------------------
GRAVITY IS A LAW, tommy... AIN'T IT.
BREAK IT AND YOU FALL ON YOUR ARSE EVERY TIME.
GUARANTEED.
LIKE THIS:
Here's you beatin a dog to HOWEsbreak it:
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsomemorri...@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:spb3ivgh7prvq9omh...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
> <kris_br...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Good books huh?
> Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.
> >Which idea was your favorite, the one where they tell you
> >to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,
> There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog (i.e.,
> it *can* and *does* work in *some* situations).
> Unfortunately, most people either do it incorrectly, do it
> at the wrong time, etc.
> >or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard enough
> >if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within 5 minutes of
> >his punishment?
> If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after careful
> evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get it over with
> quickly than it is to do it incrementally and
> half-heartedly, which usually only invites the need for even
> more discipline.
> >Maybe you liked when they recommend these beatings for
> >housebreaking accidents, chewing/destructive behavior,
> >stealing, trying to get on your bed
> >at night and dog on dog aggression.
> At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a dog. A
> swat on the rump or a check to the chin does *not*
> constitute a "beating."
> I'm sorry if you don't agree.
> And each of those behavior "problems" needs to be looked at
> in its proper context.
> A quote from the Monks:
> "We repeat, these situations may merit physical discipline.
> Since no book can pretend to analyze every individual dog
> and situation, we feel obligated to emphasize from the
> outset that discipline is never an arbitrary training
> technique to be applied to each and every dog for all
> offenses. We do, however, believe that physical and verbal
> discipline can be an effective technique. The best policy if
> you experience any of the above problems is to consult a
> qualified trainer or veterinarian for evaluation of your
> individual situation....
> "If discipline is decided upon as a training technique, it
> should be the proper technique. We feel we have developed
> several methods that depend less on violent physical force
> than timing, a flair for drama, and the element of surprise.
> We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to map out
> these methods, rather than simply skip the topic because it
> is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know what to do."
> In other words, physical discipline is reserved for those
> serious, special occasions when other methods have failed.
> For example, they do not recommend using physical discipline
> for *routine* housebreaking chores -- only on those rare
> occasions when an already reliably housebroken dog is (after
> careful evaluation) deemed to be soiling the house on
> purpose, backsliding, etc.
> I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an adult dog
> was brought to me as an *incurable* house-soiler. It was
> either get the dog reliably housetrained or the dog was
> going on a one way trip to the pound. Being the kind,
> compassionate trainer that I am, I was prepared to do
> whatever it took to get this dog house-trained and save his
> life.
> After several weeks of more or less traditional training,
> and to poor result, I brought out the big guns -- physical
> and verbal discipline. Whenever the dog soiled the house
> (no, you don't even have to catch him in the act), I
> immediately (but very calmly) tossed a leash on his collar,
> dragged him to the scene of the crime, and (using a large
> chair as a prop) tethered him to the leg of the chair, with
> his nose about two inches away from the poop. After a
> couple of swats on the rump, some loud vocalizing, and a
> wait of about 20 minutes, I'd release the dog and then
> ignore him for a while. I had to repeat this process *three*
> times, I think -- and the house-soiling miraculously
> stopped. The dog went home to enjoy a long and contented
> life with his original owners, and I got to feel good about
> myself.
> So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for novices.
> Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
> -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator to
> reply via e-mail
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsomemorri...@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:a236iv0ngp58gv9jm...@4ax.com...
> On 26 Jul 2003 22:14:29 GMT, dogstar...@aol.com (DogStar716)
> wrote:
> >>>Never mind dogman :)
> >>You too? Some folks just never learn.
> >Uh huh :)
> One of the signs of mental illness is to say "Uh huh" a lot.
> >>PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't on this
> >>list, he (or she) is NOT an approved Koehler trainer, no
> >>matter how loud you scream otherwise.
> >May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be on a list
> >to use Koehlers
> >methods or teach his methods.
> Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you that not
> every trainer who uses a leash is a *Koehler* trainer.
> Sheesh.
> This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but if she's
> hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about as far from a
> Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can possibly be.
> Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.
> I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
> adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.
> >>http://www.koehlerdogtraining. com/patoflearn.html
> >Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware that whoever
> >wrote it knows nothing about PR based training:
> >"Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend in
> >Positive Reinforcement
> >Only training systems"
> >You cannot use PR only.
> Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and many
> other places as well) *claim* that they use nothing but R.
> You know, the PPers.
> And they do it quite loudly, too.
> Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as ignorant?
> Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.
> >And if you knew anything about PR BASED training, you would
> >realize that. It's not all cookies and babytalk.
> There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome Jack
> Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool in my bag,
> including R-, P, and P-, because I know that even R has its
> limits.
> You'd know that too, if you didn't have your head in the
> sand.
> > But that seems to be the battle cry of the Koehler-ites.
> The Koehlerites have no battle cry.
> They have behaviorism on their side, and that's more than
> enough.
> >I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs a proper
> >leash correction as I
> >do not rely on a leash to control or teach my dog.
> That may or may not be suitable for your needs, but it's not
> suitable for the majority of dog owners, especially since
> the advent of leash laws.
> Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler training,
> Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in need of a leash.
> That you apparently don't know that, once again shows me
> just how ignorant of anything to do with Koehler you are.
> >My last two dogs have been trained offleash right from the
> >start, using rewards for what I like, and nothing for what
> >I don't like.
> Good for you, and if that level of training is good enough
> for you, fine. But it's not good enough for many of the
> rest of us.
> >Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.
> I really have no idea what you're saying anymore, because
> you apparently know so damn little about Koehler and
> behavioral principles in general that it's hard to have an
> informed discussion with you.
> PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to keep
> denying that those certain harsh methods are only for LAST
> RESORT situations, intended only to SAVE A DOG'S LIFE, even
> after I've repeatedly given you direct *quotes* from
> Koehler's book saying just that. It's like you don't even
> care how stupid people think you are, or how devious you
> are, etc. That can't help your cause any. You'd think that
> you'd at least want to *appear* to be honest, even if you're
> not. -
>
> - Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator
> to reply via e-mail
Here, permit The Amazing Puppy Wizard to
give you a hand with that little pin, tommy...
There. That's FIXED. ENJOY!
NHOWE START WALKIN THE WALK.
Janet B
<handsomeja...@gmail.com>, clicked their heels and said:
>
>Unless the dog is a special case, he should do just fine at most any
>reputable kennel.
I've known too many (and had one) dog(s) who would NOT eliminate on
concrete. Since most kennels have concrete flooring of some sort, in
and out, for hygiene reasons, that can be a real problem.
I always make sure to allow/teach dogs to eliminate on just about any
surface now, but I still don't kennel them ;-D
Rocky
in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> The kennel is important, but the dog is more important.
Sure, but some kennels deal better with some dogs, and this
might just be a dog which needs some form of individual
attention, at least at the beginning of his stay.
Anyway, I wanted to point out that kennels vary. There are even
small operations which take dogs into their homes. While I know
one like that in Calgary (heh), I can't help the poster with
similar places in Toronto.
> Most dogs do very well in a kennel environment, for short
> periods, provided they get some time each day to play,
> rough-house, etc. with other dogs, keepers, etc.
Yup. I leave my dogs in such a place when I'm out of town.
Still, Rocky manages to get the runs pretty much each place he
stays.
> Especially if they get visited by their owners.
Excellent point.
Janet B
<handsomeja...@gmail.com>, clicked their heels and said:
>
>I hope it's not becuase you think they'll be "stressed out" by it?
I have a petsitter come stay at the house. I do that because my house
gets "sat", my cats get "sat" (and one needs daily meds and is not
vaccinated any more) and the dogs get to use their own yard, beds,
food, etc., and I can come home and they're HERE, rather than me
having to wait until the kennel's open for pickup. And it's cheaper
that way.
I will admit that part of the reason is that I've used kennels exactly
twice. Two different dogs - 1 time each. Both times I got
injured/sick dogs back. Not my idea of fun.
Suja
"Handsome Jack Morrison" <handsomeja...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> Most *reputable* kennels allow (I would almost say that a kennel
> must have access to grass to be considered reputable) for beau coup
> "potty" breaks throughout the day, outside, on grass, etc.
You'd think that, wouldn't you? Around here, a vast majority of the half
way decent kennels have kennel runs, pretty much all concrete, all the time.
Walks, potty breaks, etc. are extra, about 2-3 bucks per outing per dog.
Then there are nature walks, which is the equivalent of an actual walk that
lasts more than 15 minutes and those go for about 5 bucks per outing.
Doggie daycares are often not much better, and a lot of them have no
non-concrete surfaces for the dogs either.
There is a reason why I drive 45 minutes (each way, on a really good day) to
kennel the dogs. There aren't very many places that meet with my approval.
At least not ones that I don't have to take out a second mortgage for,
anyway.
> I hope it's not becuase you think they'll be "stressed out" by it?
Khan is stressed out by the boarding, although he gets more or less used to
it if it is longer term. That's because of his people issues, which is of
course not the norm for most dogs. Pan, who is the one who follows me
around the house and creates trouble when she can't get to me, OTOH, is just
fine.
One of the things I like about where I am boarding them is that I get a
report of how they did when I go to pick them up. They seem to know how to
handle Khan's issues, and tailor their interactions with him accordingly
(they get the larger house, get to stay out longer, Pan gets fed inside and
Khan gets fed outside, etc.). It certainly doesn't hurt that the folks who
run the kennel also volunteers with the rescue and fosters for us.
Suja
Janet B
clicked their heels and said:
>
>You'd think that, wouldn't you? Around here, a vast majority of the half
>way decent kennels have kennel runs, pretty much all concrete, all the time.
>Walks, potty breaks, etc. are extra, about 2-3 bucks per outing per dog.
>Then there are nature walks, which is the equivalent of an actual walk that
>lasts more than 15 minutes and those go for about 5 bucks per outing.
>Doggie daycares are often not much better, and a lot of them have no
>non-concrete surfaces for the dogs either.
Yup, yup and yup. Some of the newer and fancier kennels have more
nature-walk availability, but they're also quite a drive from the
city. There's one near me that doesn't have that, but they do have
gravel play yards - I'd probably use them if I needed to kennel dogs.
Now that I have in-laws nearby, who are always too happy to sit for
their granddogs and grandcats, the choice is even simpler.
>At least not ones that I don't have to take out a second mortgage for,
>anyway.
Isn't that the truth. At $18/dog to start (and I imagine Pan may cost
more?), plus "medication fee" (I give vitamins that get tossed on
their food for goodness sake - how much trouble is that?!?!), plus if
you want them to feed your food (an extra $5 per dog per day usually,
and even then, many won't allow raw food), the fees can really add up.
I've paid $25-$35 per night for overnight stays with FOUR pets. Much
more practical. With one sitter (and my in-laws) it's 24/7 care as
well.
Janet B
<handsomeja...@gmail.com>, clicked their heels and said:
>What kind of injuries?
>How sick?
The first dog tried to get out of the overnight cage (yes, not a
kennel I'd even consider using again under any circumstances, but I
was naive) and got his leg out, and pulled it back in, tearing it.
They didn't keep him clean or treat it (they did have a vet come, but
he didn't do anything). They didn't call me (I would have cut short
my trip immediately) and when I went to pick him up, he had a raging
fever and the flesh was gangrenous. I brought him to my vet, where he
had to have flesh cut away, drains put in, and I had to carry him up
and down the stairs to my 2nd floor apartment, and try to keep the
area protected, in January. I took some of the blame for never crate
training that dog (I got him in 1973 though - it just wasn't common)
and his lack of being ok with being confined in a cage, so, the next
dog (15.5 years later) got crate trained from day one and.......
I kenneled him in a well-rated local kennel (I since have heard more
horror stories and this was in the late 80's). I boarded him with my
sister's dog, paid extra for walks, the whole nine yards. When I
picked him up, he had a softball sized hotspot on his hip, and more on
his scrotum, that had not been treated. The staff responded to my
complaints with "oh - on a holiday weekend they hardly ever get the
walks or any individual attention". I had him treated at my vet and
brought him back there with his cone head and shaved body, to complain
to the owner. The only satisfaction I got was deterring other people
from using the kennel.
Melinda Shore
Janet B <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote:
>I've paid $25-$35 per night for overnight stays with FOUR pets. Much
>more practical. With one sitter (and my in-laws) it's 24/7 care as
>well.
It costs me ~$1000/week to board the dogs while I'm away,
which means that I'm not travelling nearly as much as I used
to (and that's extremely okay with me). I've thought about
having someone come in, but I'd really need to have someone
who could spend the night and be here most of the day. I
figure they're a lot safer at a good boarding kennel than
they are left unattended for 22 hours/day.
Janet B
clicked their heels and said:
> I've thought about
>having someone come in, but I'd really need to have someone
>who could spend the night and be here most of the day. I
>figure they're a lot safer at a good boarding kennel than
>they are left unattended for 22 hours/day.
I agree, although there are many kennels where nobody is there at
night - I wouldn't use them of course, but......
I've been very lucky to have found some who stay the night and for
such a reasonable price as well. Everyone is happy and well when I
get back. I don't allow petsitters to walk my dogs or take them
anywhere - yard play only, but the dogs are perfectly fine with that.
spam...@gmail.com
there are some sane helpful people too. I think I will go with
Melinda's advice. If things don't go well and it is going to be too
difficult to make sure the dogs get along, then we'll separate them for
the night and make alternative arrangements. I'm prepared to tolerate a
small scuffle if nobody gets badly injured and Roxy quickly learns what
behaviour is required of her. I would rather this didn't happen though.
We'll keep everything closely supervised, and put a stop to any
inappropriate behaviour immediately.
What we won't do is put her in kennels for any longer than a few days.
I appreciate that possibly some owners and dogs are able to tolerate
longer stays in kennels, and that many kennels provide an excellent
service. Here in Wales we have used a small independent kennels who
only take a small number of dogs who they usually already know. The
dogs get personal attention and because we know them we trust them to
allow our dog to play and exercise with other dogs when appropriate. As
I say though, we would never put her in kennels for a long period,
because to the dog her life is with us, and when she is away from us
she gets anxious, however good the kennels are. Her welfare is our
responsibility, and she is part of the family.
I don't think much of people who insist that their way of treating
their dogs is the *only way* to treat dogs. Our dog is far from
perfectly trained (we got her from the city pound when she was 6 months
old and had some behaviour problems), but she's a happy dog who gets
plenty of love and exercise. IMO none of the miracle dog training
methods work miracles. A lot of them have some good ideas, but the most
important thing as far as I can see is that you treat your doggy
companion with respect (and vice-versa) and that you have a good time
together.
Janet B
<handsomeja...@gmail.com>, clicked their heels and said:
>If it were my dog, I would have had one of my famous "conversations"
>with that one.
well, we went to court, but the problem with using a sibling as your
attorney, is they get around to it in their own sweet time. as in way
too long - and statute of limitations had run out. It was always "i'm
getting to it real soon". Never again........
>That's the best way of getting revenge, too.
>
>Including putting up flyers, talking to vets, etc.
yep - I've told my stories about both dogs, many times over. Not just
because that nobody should use those kennels, but also why they SHOULD
crate train (as you said). It was a situation that could have been
avoided entirely. He also ripped a tooth out when at a vet's for the
day when he was sick once (and was nuts being confined).
I used to "board" dogs for people, when I was a 1-dog owner. Mostly
puppies and young dogs, but fearful dogs, challenging dogs, old or
needy dogs. One dog was being boarded when his owners got married (in
town, they just wanted him out of the way). I knew him from the park
and thought it would be fine. But he terrorized my cats like no dog
had ever done (and I then learned that they taught him "get the kitty"
while on walks), and when I put him in the basement (finished with a
dog door to the yard) to deal with my freaked out cat, he crapped all
over the place and screamed. He couldn't be crated either - he had
been found with his litter in a box, abandoned. Half the litter was
dead. He freaked out if confined. I called them and told them that
they'd have to have him as part of the wedding party - no way could
the beast stay at my house!
Janet B
<handsomeja...@gmail.com>, clicked their heels and said:
>
>Have you given any thought to finding a new sibling, too?
this one's been around for a long time - i think she's staying......
Suja
"Janet B" <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote in message
> Isn't that the truth. At $18/dog to start (and I imagine Pan may cost
> more?), plus "medication fee" (I give vitamins that get tossed on
> their food for goodness sake - how much trouble is that?!?!), plus if
> you want them to feed your food (an extra $5 per dog per day usually,
> and even then, many won't allow raw food), the fees can really add up.
With the 2-dog discount, we end up paying about $20/dog. No separate charge
for feeding the dogs our food. I package their foods into individual
portions, label them accordingly, toss their fish oil/glucosamine pills in
there, and we're good to go. The dogs get dog park time 2x a day, and each
dog house has its own attached fenced yard, so they can be in and out as
they please.
> I've paid $25-$35 per night for overnight stays with FOUR pets. Much
> more practical.
Pan is an easy dog. But, I don't trust very many people with Khan. People
tend to underestimate his capability for extending the middle finger to
anyone he doesn't think he should listen to. A lot of dog sitters I know
just don't have the savvy to manage a dog who is afraid of people but at the
same time is pretty independent and has an exceptionally healthy prey drive
to boot.
Suja
Suja
"Handsome Jack Morrison" <handsomeja...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> That wouldn't ordinarily fit my definition of a reputable kennel. I
> do realize, however, that in the bigger cities dogs are usually
> conditioned to going on concrete, so maybe I'd make an exception for
> Big City kennels.
I wouldn't exactly call us 'Big City'. We may be in the DC Metro area, but
not in DC itself.
> But I know of at least a few of them that provide ample grass or
> dirt areas.
They are there, but few and far between.
> Well, you could always move out to the country?
I've driven farther away to board the dogs, not that it worked out any
better. Pan came back with bloody elbows, (I think) because they did not
provide adequate bedding, although I had specifically told them about her
hip issues and need for extra support. I don't think I've left unexplored,
any kennels I've had recommended to me, between here and the Shenandoahs.
> Yep. It pays to find a kennel you can trust, and then to stay with
> it, even if you have to drive the extra mile(s) to get there.
Exactly. I want the dogs to get used to the folks at the kennel. When we
go to India, we'll be gone for a whole 3 weeks, and I need to have that
peace of mind that the dogs will be taken care of.
Suja
Rocky
in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> Matt, I always bring along my own water to field-trials,
> hunting trips, etc., too. It helps quite a bit.
Yup, I keep a water jug in the dogvan for out-of-town trials and
when we practice at horse arena in the country - the water
stinks (literally).
http://www.rocky-dog.com/Misc/DogVan.jpg
Rocky
in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>>Yup. I leave my dogs in such a place when I'm out of town.
>> Still, Rocky manages to get the runs pretty much each
>>place he stays.
>
> Maybe he has a sensitive stomach? Have you tried providing
> your own water?
It's worth a try, though I think it's because he finds things on
the ground to eat.
IHateToSayIt...@inbox.com
spam...@gmail.com wrote:
> Wow. There are some real fruitcakes on this newsgroup,
INDEEDY, AIN'T THERE. They GET HERE abHOWETS by ASKIN
LIARS DOG ABUSERS COWARDS and ACTIVE ACUTE CHRONIC LONG
TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES for advice for the same problems
they got with their own dogs and CAN'T TRAIN.
Then they feel COMRADERIE and join the Gang Of Lyin Dog
Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And Active Acute Chronic Long
Term Incurable MENTAL CASES who HURT INTIMIDATE MUTILATE
CRATE BRIBE and MURDER innocent defenseless dumb critters.
WELCOME!
> but fortunately there are some sane helpful people too.
Oh, for SHORE!
> I think I will go with Melinda's advice.
Here's malinda's HOWES:
http://www.employees.org/~shore/trashedbedroom2.jpg
> If things don't go well and it is going to be too
> difficult to make sure the dogs get along, then
> we'll separate them for the night and make alternative
> arrangements.
Here's malinda tellin a dog owner who JUST CURED her
dog of DESTRUCTIVE SEPARATION ANXXXIHOWESNESS that
SHE'S A "DIMWIT": "jeebus but you're a selfish,
inconsiderate dimwit."
BWEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
HOWEDY malinda,
Melinda Shore wrote:
> In article <hPM9f.4545$yX2.3...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> Jodi <breme...@earthslink.net> wrote:
> > What do you all give your strong (STRONG) chewers?
> Marrow bones, although occasionally they break or splinter
That could KILL your dogs or break their teeth, malinda.
> at which point they go into the trash immediately.
At which point it's TOO LATE.
Perhaps you should stick to givin your
dogs your bedroom to chew on.
> --
> Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware
> brevis - s...@panix.com
> Prouder than ever to be a member of the
> reality-based community.
Welcome to REALITY you miserable lying dog
abusing mental case:
From: lucyaa...@claque.net
Date: 22 Jul 2005 13:13:04 -0700
Subject: Re: For Handsome Jack Morrison:
Collars - belated reply
Melinda Shore wrote:
> In article <fii2e19ad371r3kq9t1nvkbfrmog2v3...@4ax.com>,
> shelly <scouvre...@bluemarble.net> wrote:
> > you're being disingenuous. i have no desire to
> > train my dog not to raid the trash or counter surf.
> > i've no doubt i could train her not to do either,
> > but i simply don't care enough to be bothered. so,
> > what, exactly, is your point?
?
> I do have a desire to have my dogs not raid the trash or
> counter surf, and guess what? They don't. Being dogs,
> however, they had to learn.
But you have no desire to train your dogs not to
ruin your bedroom in your absence, obviously.
http://www.employees.org/~shore/trashedbedroom2.jpg
It's what the trained dogs of our friend Melinda
have done, when left alone at home.
Lucy.
Thurs,Jun 16 2005 4:17 am
Subject: Re: Puppy Wizard - Report, Day Two
HOWEDY malinda,
Melinda Shore wrote:
> In article <robin4joy-49BEBF.23045015062.....@news.west.cox.net>,
> Robin <robin4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> [nothing of value]
"Success!" is what Robin wrote, malinda.
Robin wrote that she CURED her 12 year old dogs
separation anXXXIHOWESNESS NEARLY INSTANTLY using
her FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{);~ ) >
> jeebus but you're a selfish, inconsiderate dimwit.
That so? Didn't you want to know HOWE she done it, malinda?
> Plonk.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHHAHAAAA!!!
> --
> Melinda Shore - Software
> I'm prepared to tolerate a small scuffle if nobody
> gets badly injured and Roxy quickly learns what
> behaviour is required of her.
That's kindly of you <{); ~ ) >
> I would rather this didn't happen though.
Oh well then, perhaps you should ask for some TRAININ advice?
> We'll keep everything closely supervised, and
> put a stop to any inappropriate behaviour immediately.
LIKE THIS:
Subject: HUGE mistake (looong)
From: Suja
Date: Mon, Jan 12 2004 2:09 pm
Email: Suja <spana...@scs.gmu.edu>
We had something of a miserable experience this weekend,
and I am still beating myself up over it. Remember the
Malamute girl that I pointed out last week? Well, we
went to meet her and she was just about as sweet as a
dog could be, so we decided to adopt her.
One big problem.
>From the word go, Khan was not happy with her, stiffening
if she came anywhere near him, and growling at her under
his breath. We thought we could work things out if we
introduced them slowly, because Khan has never actually
been aggressive towards another dog, and this girl seemed
to be friendly enough, as she tried to paw him, and was
wagging her tail the whole time. She also did the same
thing to every other dog that came near her.
Came home and kept the two dogs separated. Khan's attitude
had not improved, but I didn't notice any provocation from
the girl dog. Walked them around the yard, with the two of
us walking in opposite directions so we would pass each other
briefly, closing the distance, and the first chance she got,
girl dog put her head on his shoulder.
But, the leashes were barely within reach, the dogs were
separated, and we continued on.
Then, Khan noticed her peeing, and absolutely insisted on
marking on top. She came back and marked on top of him,
and I started getting a little knot in the stomach.
We tried crating the girl dog, but she busted out of it as
soon as Khan tried to walk past it. No contact made, because
we were both right there. This was getting a little tiring,
so I took Khan out to the dog park. Came back in a couple of
hours later, but called DH and told him to make sure he had a
hold of girl dog.
He assured me that he had.
Khan was walking past DH and girl dog when the girlie slipped
DH's Khan and jumped on Khan. Then, she grabbed him by his
scruff. Khan just completely stiffened and was letting out
loud growls, but didn't move an inch. DH managed to pull
her off his neck, but she got him on his ear.
By then, he had turned around, and they went at it. It
seemed to last an eternity, and although we both had both
of the dogs by their rear end and pulling as hard as we
could, neither dog was willing to let go. Finally managed
to get them away, and girl dog made one final lunge for
Khan's leg. Khan looked unscathed, except for limping on
his already bum leg. She had a torn lower lip on the left
side and was bleeding a bit.
We took her in to the emergency vet (Saturday night), and
they kept her overnight as they needed to put her under to
suture her lip.
As soon as we got home, we checked Khan out, and he had
a bite wound on the top of his neck, a tear in his ear,
a couple of scratches on his muzzle, and a small, but
pretty deep wound in his leg.
He went to the vet yesterday, and checked out more or less okay.
I spoke with a bunch of dog people, trainers, a couple of
breed rescuers, etc. and all of them agreed that the prognosis
for this whole thing working out is not good. They pretty much
said that given enough time and space, they may come around to
the point where they can peacefully coexist under supervision,
but we may never be able to leave them alone.
Apparently, the fact that this was initiated by the newcomer
and not by the existing dog might actually mean that the
problem could worsen over time, as the new dog settles in.
There really was no way to tell if it would ever get better,
and considering how miserable Khan was, we decided that the
best thing for both dogs was to return her before we all got
overly attached to each other.
The good news is that she attended an adoption day yesterday,
and was adopted out to someone with a slightly smaller female
Husky. The two ladies appear to have hit it off (resident dog
jumped on her, and she seemed fine with it), and they were even
eating from the same bowl at home.
I realize that we got caught completely flat footed on this one.
Khan is generally quite good at letting us know when he is okay
with another dog and when he isn't, and we chose to ignore the
biggest possible red flag because we were so enamored of the
girl dog (she has just the loveliest personality).
Quite an expensive mistake, as it turned out, but it would
really be a complete waste if we learn nothing from it.
What could we have done differently? How should all this
have been handled? If there is ever a next time (and right
now, we are strongly leaning towards never, content to have
a single dog and visiting dogs),
I don't want us to repeat any of the mistakes we have made.
Suja
-----------
> What we won't do is put her in kennels for any longer
> than a few days. I appreciate that possibly some owners
> and dogs are able to tolerate longer stays in kennels,
> and that many kennels provide an excellent service.
Most of the dog lover's you're asking for advice BOARD
their friends dogs for a wee bit of MONEY <{); ~ ) >
> Here in Wales we have used a small independent kennels who
> only take a small number of dogs who they usually already
> know. The dogs get personal attention and because we know
> them we trust them to allow our dog to play and exercise
> with other dogs when appropriate. As I say though, we would
> never put her in kennels for a long period, because to the
> dog her life is with us, and when she is away from us she
> gets anxious, however good the kennels are. Her welfare is
> our responsibility, and she is part of the family.
Separation anXXXHOWESNESS is CAUSED BY MISHANDLING, not separation.
> I don't think much of people who insist that their way
> of treating their dogs is the *only way* to treat dogs.
Of curse not! THAT'S HOWE COME you're askin the LYIN DOG
ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARD ACTIVE ACUTE CHRONIC LONG TERM
INCURABLE MENTAL CASES WHO GOT THE SAME PROBLEMS FOR THE
SAME REASONS, spam.rick <{); ~ ) >
> Our dog is far from perfectly trained
Naaah? DO TELL???
BWEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
> (we got her from the city pound when she was 6 months
> old and had some behaviour problems), but she's a happy
> dog who gets plenty of love and exercise.
Yeah. Too bad you CAN'T TRAIN HER to go with you...
> IMO none of the miracle dog training methods work miracles.
You mean in YOUR OPINION as a DISMAL FAILURE at trainin
your own fear aggressive dogs, spam.rick <{); ~ ) >
> A lot of them have some good ideas, but the most
> important thing as far as I can see is that you
> treat your doggy companion with respect (and vice-
> versa) and that you have a good time together.
"I'm prepared to tolerate a small scuffle if nobody
gets badly injured and Roxy quickly learns what
behaviour is required of her."
BWEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAA!!!
Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory
6/3/02, Three days after starting WEDTM...
Well, for what it's worth, I am praising without
physical contact and she does seem to listen
better than when I would praise with it. I agree
that it is a distraction.
Anyway, no more aggressive behaviors from
her since I started the Witts End.
"MaryBeth" <marbe...@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:3cfcdcfb$2...@news.teranews.com...
> "MaryBeth" <marbe...@NOSPAMcomcast.net>
> wrote in message
> > Didja also see that he has 'morphed' into Valerie M.
> > Holmes ?????
>
> Note: I am not saying there isn't a VALID Valerie
> M. Holmes, but this one lives in howdy's home.
> MB <G>
sUBJECT: Seein Spots
Here's Valerie's story:
6/3/02, Three days after starting WEDTM...
Sellin Your Immortal Soul To The Puppy Wizzzard:
"A Contract Signed In Werewoolf And Elf Blood"
From: Seeing Spots \(Val\) (Holme...@worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: Dear Wits End
Date: 2002-06-04 18:19:07 PST
HEY!!!
There is a Valid Valerie with a REAL
Dalmatian who is a real sweet dog with
a few issues that I am working to resolve
after adopting her from a shelter
she spent 2 years in.
All I want is to get some decent help for my dog.
There is some decent stuff in Jerry's manual.
My dog has ACTUALLY been responding to
her training. The deal is you have to separate
your opinions and impressions from the guy
who is writing these posts and take from the
manual what you want.
Personally, I get a pretty good chuckle out
of the whole Jerry thing. I have to say the
guy is pretty clever, you're letting him get
under your skin. It makes for a very amusing
game I think. I'm sure he would agree,
or he wouldn't be playing everyday.
He also wouldn't be playing if he
didn't believe that his method of
training weren't valid.
Perhaps I'll learn from my mistakes,
but so far, using the Witts End, I have
gotten my dalmatian to listen to me, to
look to me for direction, to wait
for me to say when.
I have changed her from an aggressive
dog to one who is willing to please her
owner, willing to listen, willing to assume
her role in the pack.
The real Valerie M. Holmes speaking
P.s. Jerry, don't get any ideas about morphing into me, ok?
===============
Friday, 5/31/02:
HOWEDY Valerie,
"Valerie M. Holmes" <Holme...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
message news:vVAJ8.14474$LC3.1002840@bgtnsc04-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> I recently adopted a female, spayed
> 3 1/2 yr old dalmatian from a no-kill shelter.
Nice goin.
> She spent 2 years in the shelter and
> naturally she has some socialization
> issues to overcome.
Naaah not naturally, anyHOWE. Kenneling
for a long time shouldn't have problems
associated with it if the facility was reasonable,
and if they're not killin dogs they couldn't be
as cruel as our dog lovers like janet boss, john
richardson, and mikey ball, who gladly help
dogs DIE.
> My problem is I am not quite sure HOW
> to tackle these issues.
Don't worry about it! I got all the answers
and none of the calories. All ya got to do is
agree to do anything Jerry sez and you get
the aluminum funnel hat, membership card,
secret password, secret decoder ring, secret
fan club privilidges, secret FREE Wits' End
Dog Training Method manual, secret FREE
Wits' End Dog Training Method member's
benefits, and secret Contract Signed In
Werewoolf And Elf Blood with a lifetime
GUARANTEE, NEVER to have a dog
behavior problem again and your dog will
ALWAYS WANT to do as you ask.
IMPOSSIBLE? It gets EVEN BETTER!
Stick around...
> 1. She is aggresive toward **ALL** other dogs,
Ooops! WE got a TOUGH problem here.
I hope you're fit, dog training is a physical
skill not easily learned through books, the
written word just can't SHOW you the precise
moves necessary for commanding a dog.
Every dog is an individual, and we got to
SEE the behaviors to even GUESS what's
going on with your dog. THEN we got to
formulate a training program based on the
individual dog's requirements for physical
and emotional PRESSURE and learn the
fine art of attrition and have the expertise
to hurt your dog PRECICELY, and ONLY
WHEN NECESSARY.
But FIRST, a trip to the vet is in order.
Any sudden changes in behavior needs
to be examined by the veterinarian and
he'll be able to give you a referral to such
an expert who knows HOWE and when to
HURT your dog properly to make it friendly
or advise you when to KILL IT, TO BE FAIR.
So, tomorrow morning call your vet and make
an appointment in 15 days to put your dog to sleep.
Ask him HOWE MUCH.
Hang up the phone and SPEAK TO NO ONE!!!
SAY NOTHING TILL you put that money into
an envelope with your dog's name PRINTED
on it in UPPER CASE thingys.
MAKE SURE you GO DIRECTLY TO THE
BANK, SPEAK NOTHING!, and withdraw
ONLY NEW BILLS!
If you cannot obtain NEW currency KEEP
GOIN! We need CLEAN MONEY for this
SACRIFICE.
When you accept this money DO NOT TOUCH!
HAVE THE TELLER PUT THE BILLS INTO THE
ENVELOPE AND SEAL IT.
ASK HER TO PRINT YOUR DOG'S NAME ON THE BACK,
Ooops! DON'T! That's just an expression.
Hand the teller a note. DON'T SPEAK!
NOT THE FRONT. THE BACK OF THE SACRIFICIAL
ENVELOPE IN UPPER CASE THINGY'S.
Now you can speak, but don't, nobody will
believe you. Trust me. Take the envelope
to your HOWES and put it inside your
pillow case and FORGET ABOUT IT.
Don't need that for two weeks yet.
> even dogs that have shown that they
> are willing to be submissive.
Oooops? What's that mean? I don't understand
doggietalkie. You mean she attacks other dogs,
boys, girls, puppys, all dogs?
Good. That tells me we got consistency going
for us, to fix it.
When does she get an opportunity to have
a dog cower?
> Upon sight of a dog, she lunges and snarls.
O.K., that's GOOD! That tells me we can
probably break the lunging in a few minutes
of work. Maybe five, but we'll need to repeat
it a few times to generalize the idea. And
we'll need to do a little work to learn to handle
her properly, maybe an hour over several 15
minute sessions and a half dozen 5 minute sessions.
I hope your ciphering is keepin up with us.
> 2. She is usually kind and affectionate
> toward her owner (me),
Well, usually? I don't like usually. I like always,
consistent,100%, that's what's good. Always consistent.
Consistent behaviors change to other, often seemingly
un-related, consistent behaviors.
Dogs like consistency too, but not repression.
You'll see.
> but recently began turning sour
Ooops! That's good. That tells me the rest
of the problem is as I thought, JUST a little mishandling.
I'll teach youevery thing you need to know.
We're about half way done training aready.
WATCH!
> and for no apparent reason
All problem dog behaviors are a PREDICTABLE
direct result of our ineffective and inappropriate
responses to our dog's innate normal natural
instinctive reflexive responses to circumstances
of their environment WE create for them.
I'll teach you HOWE to train yourself to
respond differently to your dog's instinctive
reflexes to you, which will cause your dog
to reflex differently to your CONDITIONED
reflexive responses and interactions towards
him, compelling him to NATURALLY WANT
to do EVERY THING you ask, cause THAT'S
THE NATURE OF THE BEAST.
Once YOU have learned proper handling
techniques and appropriate non physical
control through conditioned distraction and
praise *(ABOUT 2 HRS WORK, maybe less,)
you'll be able to negotiate any obstacle LIKE
MAGICK, relying on scientific conditioning
and desensitization techniques and demonstrated
self control as explained in our Contract.. err,
your FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method
manual available, ahem, for FREE.
Unless you got that one in a BAZILLION
dog that's gonna throw Jerry the dew claw.
Don't let that happen. I'll work you through
the whole process and you'll see results
tommorow.
You'll have the behavior in pretty good shape
in a week, and in about ten days we should
be ready to start introducing her to a couple
select dogs in about fifteen minutes of work
and then we'll repeat that again a couple
times and again with a couple moore dogs
and then we'll be ready to start with the first
dog again for the off lead introduction and
you're DONE.
Oooops! PROBLEMO. My arithmetic sez
we're gonna need a couple moore days to
work this introduction business till the
aggression is thouroghly and permenantely
extinguished. If we break our Contract, I'm
err, shall we say OUTTA HERE FOREVER?
Of course I could handle this a lot faster in
person myself cause I can control you and
your dog to insure the result, so nobody's
got to do nothin noHOWE, but speak when
I ask, and hush as I speak and relish each
word like candy you'd eat, and jump when
I say, ask HOWE HIGH and salute, and
tout tributes to Jerry's manual whenever
you open your mouth...
That's all. Oh, and one other thing... I hope
you don't faint at the sight of blood. WE got
to sign a contract. HOWE MUCH do you want
this dog to turn out PERFECT in about two
weeks? I'm willing to...shall we say, STAKE
my ahahahahahaaaa, life on it???
BWWWWAHAHAHAAAA!!!
> and...
And NUTHIN. I REBUKE YOU IN THE NAME
OF SATAN, DOG LOVER!!!
You'll do as I say and dance when I speak...and
sing for your breakfast and beg for your treat ...
I'll stop at at nuthin to save your dog's life, includin
sellin the souls of my dog and my wife, to prove
there's no way to make a dog lover right.
I'll go with The Devil to save our dog's lives, I'll
fight tooth and nail with guns and with knives,
I'm droppin the hammer on dog trainer's careers,
and takin their eye teeth along with their rears.
They been jerkin and chokin the life outta dogs
and now I got them all by their balls in my jaws...
Now go ahead and pinch my ears..., or just
make me laugh.
I just told you we figured out your dog's problem.
> snarls toward me!
Big deal. She won't do that noMOORE once
you learn to handle her like any of my students.
> This has completely destroyed the trust
What trust? The trust established with your
choke collar and corrections?
Don't worry about a thing. WE got a CONTRACT.
Remember?
> we were building over the past month.
BWWWWAJJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAAAAA!!!
Got me laughin in Spanish and I don't even
speak Spanish.
> 3. She deals with visitors,
Deals? Sounds tentative. She's just a little shy. Don't worry
about it. I'm
the only game in town. I got the deal and Jerry don't make no
deals...
Well not no moore, since I'm temporarily
outta... mmm, currency.
Jerry don't compromise with dog lovers who prefer
to hurt and kill dogs than spend a couple hours
trying to show the dog HOWE to live instead of
forcing IT to choose the degree of pain it prefers
to tolerate in between spurts of life, anxiety, and repression.
> but is very anxious around people she
> doesn't know.
Shy. The anxiety is a result of punishment for being
aggressive cause she's shy, or maybe just from back
when a puppy jumpin up onto a guest and gettin
kneed in the chest or toes stepped on or alphaphalpha
rolled and growled into their throat or just SCRUFF
SHAKED and screamed NO for 5 seconds or chin
CHUCKED and bit on the ears till they piss themselves
or jerked and choked on a pronged spiked pinch choke
collar or burned with a medical grade static like stimulation
device or containment system like our dog lovers at k9
web and cindy "don't let the dog SCREAM" mooron
recommend TO ENHANCE THE BOND between 'trainer'
and dog.
Our traditional training methods are what's making
your dog turn on you for hurting and scaring her
during her meetings with other dogs.
Our pal lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and janet
boss recommend pronged spiked pinch choke
and shock and citronella collars for training this
kind of dog... and they'd rather not put IT
through all that when there's SO MANY dogs
that are MOORE deserving of their HELP.
And then they'll kill our best dogs and deny it,
despite it's archived FOREVER.
You see where WE're goin with all this? WATCH.
> At first she would scream if a stranger petted
> her with 2 hands.
I'd probably come real close to dropping the
hammer on them myself. My dogs will bite you
if a stranger meeting us put their hands on us in
a restraining manner. We don't like that.
Trust me.
Strangers touching us means we got to run
and find an adult or a policeman. RIGHT?
Either that or...
> I just don't trust her around anyone yet.
Me too. I never trust a dog. I only trust my
training methods and then we don't got to
worry about what the heel the dog cares...
who the heel's the goddamned trainer, you
or the dog?
THE DOG!
You got to TRAIN YOURSELF to reflex to
his needs properly and then he'll reflex to
his natural instinct and be able to use his
dog skills as part of your family pack,
equally with you and the other family
members.
Every thing you've been taught about
handling your dog is DEAD WRONG
and your dog is prima facia evidence
in Jerry's Giiihhhaaad against the dog
behavior industry for bringing us every
dog behavior problem we've got.
> 4. She lunged at my sisters 2 year old
$#!T! You're gonna try and make this hard for
me aren't ya, pullin the fear/guilt double high
card trump tryin to make Old Jerry roll over
and piss himself with the 2 yo kid card???
NOTHIN DOIN! Get the heel outta here!
IN THE NAME OF SATAN I REBUKE YOU,
DOG LOVERS!!!
> the same way she lunged toward other dogs,
> aggressively.
Duh-Oh! Spooooookey!!!
BWWWAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
> I really really like this dog,
THAT'S GREAT! I do too. I like all dogs
on general principle and individual dogs
on merit and don't like nobody no moore
than me...and mine. You got your copy
of The Contract?
Don't worry about nuthin. Me an mine are
comin through this alive... sort of, in a sense.
> when she is calm and able to relax.
Vs what? I would like to know when she's not
calm and able to relax... tell us what she's doin.
THOSE are the anxiety relief mechanisms WE
need to deal with so I can fulfill OUR Contract
and... finish you off, and that little dog too!
> I want to keep her,
LIKEWISE. WE got a long term Contract.
Haven't we?
> but I don't really know what the best way to
> establish the necessary trust.
Yeah, as a matter of fact we got EXPERTS here.
Let me INTRODUCE you around?
> Any ideas out there?
Yeah. Our dog lovers were just on their way to
another forum. Weren't you, dog lovers? We'll
introduce our new found friends later.
Right now our OP's got some studying to do
before she has an accident cause she won't
know HOWE to handle her lead to stop
triggering her dog to pull if she's wastin time
with dog abusers who jerk and choke dogs.
That's moore than half of what gets IT angry.
Now if this sounds too unbelievable, I'll just
up the ante.
I'll PAY YOU $10.00 / hr to study with me,
IF YOU FAIL.
Call or write for details and agreement: 1 888 WITSEND.
Your Puppy Wizard. <}YPW;~ ) >
IHateToSayIt...@inbox.com
acute chronic long term incurable mental case,
Suja wrote:
> "Janet B" <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote in message
>
> > Isn't that the truth.
>
> With the 2-dog discount, we end up paying about $20/dog. No separate charge
> for feeding the dogs our food. I package their foods into individual
> portions, label them accordingly, toss their fish oil/glucosamine pills in
> there, and we're good to go. The dogs get dog park time 2x a day, and each
> dog house has its own attached fenced yard, so they can be in and out as
> they please.
>
> > I've paid $25-$35 per night for overnight stays with FOUR pets. Much
> > more practical.
>
> Pan is an easy dog. But, I don't trust very many people with Khan. People
> tend to underestimate his capability for extending the middle finger to
> anyone he doesn't think he should listen to. A lot of dog sitters I know
> just don't have the savvy to manage a dog who is afraid of people but at the
> same time is pretty independent and has an exceptionally healthy prey drive
> to boot.
>
> Suja
Subject: HUGE mistake (looong)
AnimalBehaviorForensicSc...@hotmail.com
spam...@gmail.com wrote:
> Thanks Melinda
>
> That sounds like sensible advice.
Yeah. Here's somemore SENSIBLE ADVICE from malinda:
HOWEDY Rosemary,
Rosemary wrote:
> On 7 Jun 2005 05:19:16 -0400, sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore) wrote:
>
> >In article <993aa1h0fid69u7eb...@4ax.com>,
> >Rosemary <Petticoats> wrote:
>
> >>Oh Ok so it's alright for you to use shock treatment,
Yeah, if you know your dog well enough. Some dogs
just don't RESPECT PAIN, HOWEver, so they got to
be MURDERED.
LIKE THIS:
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars
Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63...@4ax.com...
Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.
The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.
What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.
I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.
I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.
Sally Hennessey
"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv...@4ax.com...
Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.
I'm starting to see some similarities here.
Sally Hennessey
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
SEE?
> >> to punish your dog for behaving like a dog.
Well, THAT'S on accOHOWENT of they don't know HOWE
to train a dog withHOWET HURTIN INTIMIDATING CRATING
BRIBING and MURDERIN IT.
> > 1) It's not shock treatment,
Right. Consider it remote praise. Dogs ENJOY
gettin shocked.
> > 2) it's an extremely mild shock,
It AIN'T even a real shock, it's static like stimulation,
kinda like walkin across a carpeted floor on a cold day
and touchin the kat.
> > and 3) the consequences of the dog escaping are far worse.
THAT'S HOWE COME we TRAIN dogs withHOWET HURTING THEM
so they won't WANT to ESCAPE their HOWESES.
> >You don't have experience with difficult-to-contain dogs and
> >you clearly know nothing about the technology, so why are
> >you running your yap?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
> Actually I know more about electric fencing than many on the group.
> Hot fencing as we call it in Australia is used extensively for
> properties in my area that front roads and cliff lines, but they are
> not designed as a convenience thing for lazy farmers. They are
> designed to save lives. Cattle accidentally wandering onto roads can
> cause serious road accidents. Many motorists have died in Australia as
> a result of collision with large wandering farm animals. Strong, high
> fencing could be used but at enormous and unaffordable cost. Some
> properties here are over 50000 acres and have boundaries that extend
> for a hundred Kms
>
> Fortunately my property doesn't require hot fencing. Even though it's
> around 5000 acres in size it only has about 10 km of actual road
> frontage and the traffic is very light, only about dozen cars use it a
> week. The point I'm making is that using this sort of fence as an
> absolute last resort safety issue is far cry from using it to keep a
> dog from running away in the suburbs. Unlike cattle or sheep you can
> train your dog not to run away, and even if he is a slow learner,
> using electric shocks to punish him is not a humane way.
>
> If your dog is so determined to get out of your yard and run away,
> then I would be taking a serious look at why that is. Is he bored? Is
> he scared? Does he need a companion?, more toys, a bone to chew. Maybe
> there's a bitch on heat nearby?, or are you simply not spending enough
> time with him.
>
> I know whatever I say is not going change your mind, but I stand on my
> convictions. Electric shocking a dog an act of cruelty. It's illegal
> in this country and rightfully so.
>
> Rosemary
misty" <Momi...@webtv.net wrote in message
news:
6946-3B6337A1-...@storefull-233. iap.bryant.webtv.net...
We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring.
Two dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no
collars.
Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want
to come back in the yard and would run for days.
The last time, Peach didn't come back home.
I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how
to train my dog.
She is now border trained. A few minutes each day
reinforces her desire to stay in the yard. She no
longer runs out into the road, I can stop her from
chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we walk
around the yard.
I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate
the e-fence and its collars. If you can't get a
regular fence then you need to train your dog.
I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my
dog in our yard again.
The price was too high:-(
~misty
"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net wrote in message news:
16990-3CAB1F8...@storefull-2293. public.lawson.webtv.net
I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know
she's not here with us. I really can't blame anyone
here for her loss.
I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because
of how you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the
idea that my using a shock collar could have any
bearing on Peach not wanting to stay home.
Up until I started using it my main concern had been
keeping my dogs in their own yard.
Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my
concern became how to keep them from running off for
days on end.
I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in
the anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.
I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world
now <g A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely
housetrained, doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the
yard, and doesn't bark all the time.
IOW a great companion and friend.
Thanks Jerry!
=====================
Here's a couple MOORE in case you think
Misty is a FLUKE or sumpthin... EVERY
CASE HISTORY CITED CAN BE VERIFIED:
From: Nevyn (greatd...@badmama.com.au)
Subject: Re: radio fence
Date: 2003-11-05 04:17:45 PST
Hi folks,
In my opinion the use of a radioshock fence is a waste of
time, effort or money. I can understand it if you a rich snob
who cares nothing about their dogs safey or behaviours.
At work I boundary train all the dogs to the bricked area
(Four kennels with 26 cages with 1 dog in each, 1 services
building and 2 catterys which is surrounded by scrubland to
the east and woodlands to the north and a lake to the west).
This works well, because then when people buy them the dogs
are easier to boundary train to a door or fence or yard.
However on a personal note, my two shelter mutts, who I
trained using the WITS END DOG MANUAL available at
www.doggydoright.com will not go past the back door, or the
back gate or the front gate without permission.
And it is nice, for when you are having a party, you can leave
your gates open for people, and your dogs won't be the least
concerned.
I find this better then spending your well earned money on a
piece of junk Why not use it to invest in a horse? Or a new
house? Make a nice aquarium? Build a nursery for a child?
Save your money. Train your dog. Please. -- Thankyou,
Nevyn
_________________________________
Nevyn E.D. Veterinary Nurse
& Animal Trainer greatd...@badmama.com.au
"You can judge a man's heart by his treatment of animals"
__________________________________
From: Paul B (NOSPAMpaul_bou...@clear.net.nz)
Subject: Re: Fence Jumping
Date: 2000-09-29 04:33:37 PST
Been well experienced in dogs escaping from our
yard I know exactly the frustration you are going
through. Sam used to jump over the fence so I
made it higher then we got Roz and she went
under it, through it and climbed over it.
I've decided there are only 2 ways to stop the escaping,
1 is to have an escape proof fence, the other to train the
dogs not to want to escape.
I suppose a third method is to keep them
inside but I don't consider that a solution.
Making the fence escape proof can be almost impossible
if the dog is determined, to stop it climbing over as yours
is doing put an extension on top of the fence that angles
inwards at about 30-45 degrees. Never use chicken wire
as the dogs tear through that like paper.
The only training method to prevent this I can recall is
Jerry's technique, essentially it involves walking around the
perimeter of the fenced area with the dog and using sound
distractions and praise to teach the dog it's boundary.
I have had partial success with it (i.e. I have deterred Roz
from escaping from various points along the fence) but then
again I haven't really followed it through completely.
One last glimmer of hope, as the dog gets older it may
become more settled, Sam never escapes now although
he's quite capable of getting out, he 2.5 years old and
seemed to settle at about 2. So there you are, only 1.5
years of escaping left!!!
Paul.
=================
HOWEDY matty,
Rocky wrote:
> Rosemary said in rec.pets.dogs.breeds:
>
> > You can justify or play it down all you like but the truth
> > is it's a cruel and barbaric way of training an animal who
> > you purport to love and relies on you to look after it.
>
> Do you leave your dogs alone in your yard
Dogs are TERRORTORIAL creatures of HABIT, matty.
Dogs can be PERIMETER TRAINED in just a few minutes
if you know HOWE, matty, at least accordin to The
Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students all over the WHOWEL WILD WORLD.
> while you're at work or asleep?
You recommend shocking dogs on accHOWENT of your
own dogs will ESCAPE if you leave them HOWET for
a few minutes withHOWET supervision. OR, they'll
dig holes all over your yard... from anXXXIHOWESNESS.
> Australian posters have claimed that such is the norm there;
You mean alphalph sweeny. His "SAR" dogs ESCAPE on
him and WON got run DHOWEN on the road...
> this, IMO, is a cruel and barbaric way to house a dog.
That so, matty? But shockin and chokin and lockin them
in boxes and spraying aversives in their faces AIN'T
CRUEL and BARBARIC accordin to you, matty:
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
You can't post here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE
on accHOWENT of you're a liar a dog abuser a coward
and active long term incurable MENTAL CASE:
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
>By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
>suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
>that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
>the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
>crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
>you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
>dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
"Rocky" <> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
From: Mark Shaw (m...@bangnetcom.com)
Subject: Re: Fido-Shock
Date: 2002-04-10 14:12:18 PST
In article <gWLs8.203228$af7.101030@rwcrnsc53>,
"Coleman Brumley" <clbrum...@home.com> wrote:
>Has anyone had experience with this product (Fido-Shock).
>If so, what model number, voltage, etc.?
If you're talking about the pet-grade hotwire system, I have
one. It's to keep boarded dogs out of my flowers.
>I have a 1.5 year St Bernard who is scaling (not clearing --
>more like falling over) our 4 foot fence to visit with owners
>walking their dogs. I thought of raising the fence a foot or
>so, but don't think that'll solve the problem. I've tried
>watching her outside, and give a stern "NO" when she
>props on the fence for a peek over it. No avail.
>I've heard this product works after just a couple of tries.
I take it you're considering running the wire across the top
of the fence? I don't think I'd recommend that, although it
may be worth a try. Watch closely -- the one case where I saw
a hotwire used in this fashion caused the dog undue stress and
frustration, and he tried even harder to get over the fence.
So be prepared to take it down right away.
That was a Dane, though. With a Saint things might be
different.
--
Mark Shaw
culprit's dogs MURDERED her kat for standin
behind their SHOCK FENCE just like HOWE
liea's dog attacked her only friend and
tried to attack two little kids for standin
in her SHOCK ZONE:
Subject: Re: Video clip......."Nero" practicing
bark alert, while walking backwards
Date: 2004-06-05 18:53:50 PST
"micha el" <spam_yurs...@spamyourmamma.com> wrote in message
news:yIydnZpPsIz...@comcast.com...
> Anyway, contrary to your PR, this is what
> it felt like to me when I got shocked by
> Hope's collar.
> It felt like a bomb going off in my
> hand and forearm.
--------------------------------
"Tricia9999" <tricia9...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021117101433...@mb-cg.aol.com...
> how effective are these electronic fences in
> keeping a dog on a property????
Some run through it. Others get shocked and become
too scared to go out in the yard anymore.
Just heard of a guy that has to rehome his dog,
because the dog got caught right in the path of
the shock and will now not go near his person,
won't go outside.
Just hides under a desk in the house.
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!
"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.
"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll
state my opinion once and won't defend it further:
any method can be cruel for some dogs.
Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the
beginning, but we've come a long way since then.
She trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.
Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.
Is it time for that?
What might I look for to tell?"
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@comcast.net>
wrote in message news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...
> After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
> Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
> is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
> keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
> up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
> and the vet agrees.
> --Lia
Spot
some fencing or even purchase an outside kennel. That way you can keep them
seperated outside when necessary and when indoors keep them in seperate
rooms.
We had to keep the dogs seperated when we evaculated 2 years ago. We moved
the ducks out of the kennel to the chicken coop and Barney spent the day in
an outside kennel at my sisters. Then that evening we brought him inside
and he slept in the basement. Now Brandy was a marshmallow she went right
in the house and made herself at home on the recliner and never even blinked
at my sisters dogs.
Celeste
<spam...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1142257128.4...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>I am moving from the UK to Canada in a couple of months with my
> Canadian wife and our 3 year-old labrador / staff / allsorts female -
> Roxy. For a few weeks at least we will be staying with my mother-in-law
> who has two Canadian Inuits - one male (5-7 years old) - Boomer, and
> one female (11-12 years old) - Matissa. We are concerned about how to
> introduce the two females to minimise the chance of a serious fight.
>
> Matissa is alpha in the household and a fairly grumpy old thing. She is
> not a particuarly active animal, but on a previous occasion has taken a
> chunk out of another dog's ear when he was on her territory. After this
> scuffle, the dispute appeared to pass and she allowed the visiting dog
> to remain on the territory once she had asserted her dominance. Boomer
> is a good-natured animal who is not particularly active most of the
> time due to a hormone defficiency.
>
> Roxy is a very active playful dog about the size of a small labrador,
> who loves to play with bigger dogs, and will submit to them, although
> she may wind them up to play with her. She can be distracted from
> almost any dog by waving/throwing a stick.
>
> We will be arriving with Roxy from the airport, and she will
> undoubtedly be distressed having been locked up in a crate for 9 or 10
> hours. My mother-in-law's home has quite a large house and garden with
> outdoor kennels for the dogs, although they are allowed indoors on the
> ground floor and sleep inside too. The back garden is fenced off to
> keep the dogs in, and the front garden & driveway are not.
>
> The most common suggestion in this situation seems to be that the
> animals should be introduced off the territory. Unfortunately I cannot
> see how under the circumstances we could do this. We may be able to
> take the animals off the grounds to an adjacent field for a walk, but
> only on their leads. Roxy often growls at other dogs when she is on her
> lead, and certainly would not feel comfortable letting her off the lead
> in a strange new place which is not fenced in. It will be dark when we
> arrive and there are busy roads in the area.
>
> The tools we have at our disposal are the house, a large fenced-in
> garden containing two tethers with long ropes, and a long driveway with
> large grassy verges (not fenced). What would be the best possible
> solution to introduce these dogs, in particular the two females, within
> these restrictions?
>
IHateToSayIt...@inbox.com
spam...@gmail.com wrote:
> I suppose I should also point out that Matissa, the older dog, has
> an owner - my sister-in-law, who has good dog handling skills,
But of curse! That means the dog is TRAINED and you AIN'T GOTTA
WORRY abHOWET her dog attackin YOUR dog like IT done to the
OTHER dog <{) ; ~ ) >
NO PROBLEMO!
> and to whom Matissa is very obedient.
Yeah. IOW the dog AIN'T TRAINED, she's just AFRAID of her ABUSER.
From: "Dr. Von" <drv...@mindspring.com>
Date: 12 Sep 2005 10:52:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Clicker Training for Dogs Newsgroups?
Jen, your request for a positive only dog training list,
needs the same answer as I give the folk who ask why I
don't have a list for what I do with biofeedback.
The method is so simple, and if you adopt it and relate
to your dog in such a positive manner you won't have any
more problems and there is no need for any more technique.
With Puppies we Ph.D. psychologists have been outflanked
by the entirely practical and effective methods described
in http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u. Free download, nothing
sold, no mailing list, no distribution of your name. Free
support if needed.
With ADHD kids I provide similar information at
www.drbiofeedback.com and there is no need for
a list dealing with problems with kids. Apply
as directed and have happy healthy doggies or
kiddies.
Not difficult.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
P.S. jerk and choke, spanking, shocking, scruff shake,
choke, chin chucks, all those negatives, denial of
affection etc. are harmful, dranging, obscenities.
You might want to consider Pavlov's typology to
understand "hard and soft dogs" - essentially he
taught that there are outward and inward responding
organisms in weak and strong nervous systems and if
you grasp this firmly you'll shape your training
methods effectively.
Punishment ALWAYS deranges behavior, and so is
recommended and given only by deranged humans.
Of course, it doesn't matter if we are talking
dogs, cats, people, sheep, even husbands.
Dr. Von
> She will be there when we arrive, but not all the time.
Then your dogs WILL attack each other when the CON-TROLLER AIN'T IN
CON-TROLL.
BWEEEEAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAa!!!
Punishment Deranges Behavior.
"NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
EXCEPT
To DERANGE Behaviors.
Here's professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM NO! into ITS face for
five seconds and lock IT in a box for ten minutes contemplation"
dermer of the Department of ANAL-ytic Behavior at UofWI, pryor:
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?
Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),
--Marshall
Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@uwm.edu
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"
From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer) -
Date: 1998/08/28
Subject: Re: Puppy growls and snaps
In article <6s6ea0$8c...@uwm.edu> der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall
Dermer) writes: In article <35E60819.65178...@pilot.msu.edu>
> >tami sutherland <suthe...@pilot.msu.edu> writes:
>> However, there have been incidences where she has
>> growled and snapped at us...for instance, when we
>> were trying to dry her off after bathtime.
> When your three-month old pooch growls or snaps, IMMEDIATELY
> pick her up ONLY by the skin at the back of her neck, for 5
> sec, and loudly say, "NO!" Alternatively, say "NO!" and hold
> her mouth shut for say 15 sec.
> If she so snaps that you can't do the above then you
> will have to find another way to administer a prompt
> correction, for example, throwing a can filled with
> pennies, or a tug on the collar. --Marshall
"Oops! I would start by only holing her mouth
shut for say 5 sec.
At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
P.S. Contacting Dr. P:
Please note that due to the large number of
requests I receive, I can no longer give free,
personal advice on problems related to dog
training and behavior.
In order for me to give such advice we would
have to "talk" about the problem at length.
That is, I would need detailed information about
the dog, it's environment and routine, the problem,
and the situation in which the problem occurs.
Thus, this type of consultation takes time which
I cannot afford to give away for free.
If you wish such advice, please see the information
I have provided about my K9 Behavioral Consulting
practice. Another alternative to obtaining personal
advice is to participate in e-mail, chat room, &
newsgroup discussions.
P.P.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!
Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400
Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.
I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.
There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.
Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology
Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:
"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.
From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
alert the world to animal abuse.
We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.
Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?
In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"
< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.
'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.
>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are
Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?
Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman
=====================
> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus
<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>
> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.
This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.
Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.
Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.
> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.
> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)
===========
Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy,
"you insipid piece of cow dung!"
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:26:31 GMT
Subject: Dr. George VonHilshimer Writes: "No Loving, No Learning."
HOWEDY People,
Perhaps the PROBLEM is "TOO MANY WORDS?"
From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
To: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 4:40 AM
Subject: Fw: Counter Cruising must stop
> From: "diannes" <dian...@bolt.sonic.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Counter Cruising must stop
> > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > I wrote:
> > > > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > On another note: I understand why someone
> > > > > proclaiming a method that works on all dogs,
> > > > > all the time, would send up "red flag" to you
> > > > > and others, but the fact remains, if a technique
> > > > > *doesn't* work 100% of the time, with all dogs,
> > > > > then there must be a flaw in the philosophy
> > > > > underlying that technique.
> > > > Ditto for dog training. No failure nor flaw of method
> > > > is involved - that's just acceptance of reality.
> > > First of all, I didn't say that there was a flaw in the
> > > method, though anyone is welcome to make that
> > > leap.
> > > I said there was a flaw in the underlying philosophy
> > > and its model of learning.
> > Correction accepted. I think that perhaps we are using
> > terminology differently here. Here is my use of the terms:
Jerry, I don't know where you find these folk who can't read.
> In order to use negative reinforcement, one must
> typically administer the aversive stimulus in order
> to be able to terminate it.
This is not negative reinforcement. Negative means no.
Positive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
reward emitted immediately by trainer;
Negative reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
no response by trainer;
Aversive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
aversive stimuli emitted immediately by trainer;
The term "reinforcement is used only tentatively with
"aversion" because aversive stimuli (aka punishment)
typically derange learning and are not followed by clean
learning curves equivalent to those which follow reward
or positive reinforcement;
Escape conditioning = dog has an aversive stimulus
applied without any dog related reason and when
behavior is emitted aversive stim is immediately turned off .
There is some indication that Escape Conditioning
works in a manner closely approximating reward;
but, ear pinch? -- too aversive.
I remind you that you should beat them over the head
with "The Misbehavior of Organisms" by Breland and
Breland, published in B.F. Skinner's CUMULATIVE
RECORD. Ignored by most profs of psychology, but
the distillation of his work.
NO PUNISHMENT.
Must pay attention to who is the animal?
His evolution, his development, and his personal history -
cannot train without respect for who is the dog? So says
the BIG TIME operant conditioning guru - and you can also
refer back to MARY COVER JONES (mother of scientific
systematic psychology), no loving, no learning.
I suppose I could wire up a dog so that his brain was
badly interrupted and the loving method of puppy training
might not work well - but it would still work better than
the methods used by dominatrix and their ilk.
Lovingly applied ethological techniques like the one
espoused by the Wizard of ALL puppies work for all
dogs, for that matter for all mammals higher than cat.
Indeed, they will work for cats if trainer is warmly competent.
You can see this in Key West on any sunny day.
Housecats performing quite happily.
Fondly, Dr. Von
From: TooCool (larrym...@hotmail.com)
The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method
I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
years. I have a huge library that covers every system
of training.
The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
method yet discovered.
It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is
a logically consistent system. Every behavior problem
and every obedience skill is treated in the same logically
consistent manner.
Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
understand the basis of his system and please follow
his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
how their solution should be approached.
One should not pick and choose from among his methods
based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is
not a bag of tricks but a complete and integrated system
for not only training a dog but for raising a loving companion.
When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.
You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
lie quietly and let me clip his nails).
Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
train you dog to respond to your commands.
What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
carry him in response to my recall command-and he
comes running every time I call no matter where we are
or what he is doing.
At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
his Family Pack Leadership exercises.
Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
you.
Is Jerry a nut?
It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not.
It is a logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas based
upon their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry
wears his heart upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply when
he hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding or
hurting dogs.
More than that, he knows that force is not effective
and that it will certainly lead to behavior problems;
sometime problems so severe that people put their
dogs down because of those problems.
I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control
their dog by force. Jerry knows this too. We have all been
at our wits' end, haven't we?
Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
to praise.
Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
along with their anxiety.
Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
success.
Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.
If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet
little Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little
gremlin (anyone see The Gremlins?). --Larry
From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST
> > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
> > Mike
> Ok Mike which part worked for you?
It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.
Works like a charm.
My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.
Sorry that slipped my mind.
I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.
Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.
Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.
Seemed he learned through osmosis.
Nice side benefit there.
It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.
I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.
I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.
I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.
Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.
Mike
"Ama...@DCFWatch.com" wrote:
No, the dog learned that I would hold still
the second she began to pull. She would pull
to go where *she* wanted.
Well if she wanted to stop and go in another
direction.. say to sniff my neighbors yard..
she learned if she wanted to do it I would stop
walking and she could go.. and if there wasn't
enough slack on her lead she would just pull me.
Then when she got done doing *her* thing, she woudl
heel.. smile at me and wait for me to say "let's go"
and finish *my* thing. I would refuse to move .. i
looked like an idiot.. freezing mid walk for minutes
waiting for *my* dog to heel and give *me* permission
to go again.
I did the treats and the let's go... she got to do her
stuff and get a cookie.. if she even wanted the cookie.
I wound up calling Jerry.. as I have a half red nose
pit and half amstaff.. who is incredibly protective..
we had a new pup on the way.. and i needed help.. i
followed petsmarts trainnign guides.. memorized them...
and they *did* work, don't get me wrong.. but only
when my pet wanted a cookie or felt the cookie was
better than what she wanted.. which was not often.
She quickly learned to ignore my commands if she
could see my hands were empty. So I called Jerry...
he chatted me for about an hour and a half.. gave me
his link... and even when i had probs intro'ing the
pup he called me withn i5 mins of my email for help
at 10pm on a sunday night.
One.. singular.. uno family pack exercise after
the hot and cold exercise and i could zig zag
down my street.. about face .. whatever.. and
never had tension.
two men were acrossed the street and she walked right
by them... ordinarily she'd snarl and protect us.
And in two days.. my dog.. who bit the puppy if he
even looked like he was going near my husband or kids..
is nursing him every hour.. cleaning him.. rough housing
gently.. and teaching him to go potty outside..
actually watches him to make sure he doesn't go in
the house... and has milk.. which is awesome since
she's 19 months old and has never had a litter.
She also has stopped barking non stop at our neighbor's
dogs and pig.. does not bark at eveyr car that drives by
and has stopped jumping on people. she's even starting
to ignore our cat who has lived on her dome litter box
and our window sill (literally) for over a year and a half.
She also does her commands on cue.. and doesn't look for a treat.
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Subject: The Amazing Jerry's take on psychobabble
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:44 -0400
You might improve the learning of folk who actually
live with and train dogs to do useful things if you
excluded everyone who uses psychobabble from your lists.
I recommend to all of you who wish to taste the flavor
of sensible animal behaviorists to read THE MISBEHAVIOR
OF ORGANISMS, Breland and Breland.
This married pair of psychologists began the long trail
of highly trained animals who are symbolized by Shamu
eating a mackrel from a girl's hand instead of eating
the much more tasty pretty girl who is exactly the size
of the natural food of killer whales, seals. Yum!
The essay, by the way, is a chapter in B.F. Skinner's
summing up book, CUMULATIVE RECORD. They include a
sentence which more or less says, "unless you understand
the personal history of the particular animal, and the
history of this animal's species and group, the developmental
history of the animal, you cannot effectively train the animal.
Pigs root and hen's scratch, if you try to train hens without
scratching or pigs without scratching or pigeons without pecking,
you aren't going to have much success.
A conditional reflex is one which is learned, the original
primitive reflex occurs no matter what the history of the
animal, and is hard wired. If you train the animal to respond,
say by ringing a bell immediately before turning on a bright
light, then you've taught the animal and made his native reflex
of pupil constriction conditional upon the ringing of a bell.
Thorndyke added some terminology to this kind of training
and insisted that when you train the animal to make gross
motor responses that this learning is "instrumental", the
animal takes action and uses an instrument.
The Russian word translated as "conditional" in all other
contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator,
Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology
went haring after phantasmagora.
The major theorists for the development of the language of
operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and
B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major
role in the development of American psychology.
They proposed that learning is the result of the application
of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain
responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the
probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.)
Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using
consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g.,
an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant"
because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is
influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning
illustrates S-->R learning, operant conditioning is often
viewed as R-->S learning since it is the consequence that
follows the response that influences whether the response
is likely or unlikely to occur again.
It is through operant conditioning that
voluntary responses are learned.
One should note that Russian Psychology did very well
without the operant language, and only pettifogging
university professors ought to worry about what kind
of label we attach to the learning. Pfui!
Even Skinner understood this!
And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
THERAPY.
Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
to a scientific basis. Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
Salter as a source. "...all the highest nervous activity, as
it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
continual change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
the fish and not the pretty girl?"
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice
Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.
I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.
I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:
whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.
The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).
You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.
As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine
IfMyFriendsCould...@i-love-dogs.com
Spot wrote:
> If you find they don't get along
Like your dogs, spot?
> is large enough to split the yard up with some fencing or even
> purchase an outside kennel. That way you can keep them
> seperated outside when necessary and when indoors keep them
> in seperate rooms.
You mean INSTEAD of just TRAININ them to TRUST each other, spot?
> We had to keep the dogs seperated when we evaculated 2 years ago.
You mean on accHOWENT of YOU GOT THE SAME PROBLEM, spot?.
> We moved the ducks out of the kennel to the chicken coop and Barney
> spent the day in an outside kennel at my sisters. Then that evening we
> brought him inside and he slept in the basement. Now Brandy was a
> marshmallow she went right in the house and made herself at home on
> the recliner and never even blinked at my sisters dogs.
Well, that's AMAZING!
> Celeste
HOWEDY spot
Spot wrote:
> You answered your own question.
That so?:
"Does anyone have any ideas other than to
just never have her around other dogs?"
> Keep her away from other dogs,
That AIN'T the ANSWER, spot.
> she gives no warning signs and is "unpredictable"
The dog IS predictable. She FIGHTS when she's AFRAID.
> better safe than sorry.
That so, spot?
> I had a lab/husky/cocker mix who had an "Attitude"
> that I can take anything regardless of size.
You mean he was VERY AFRAID.
> He got along with only one other dog in his life time
Well then spot, perhaps you shouldn't be givin ADVICE
abHOWET HOWE to pupperly handle and train a dog, spot?
> and even that took 6 months to accomplish.
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHHAHHAAA!!!
> I came to the realization early on that he was always
> going to be "Mr Antisocial" and always going to go for
> a fight.
On accHOWENT of you don't know HOWE to train a dog
nodoGgamenedMOORE than the other lying dog abusing
punk thug cowards and active acute long term incurable
MENTAL CASES who choke shock crate bribe and intimidate
their own dogs like HOWE you do, spot.
> As much as I hated it to do it
You just couldn't heelp yourself, eh spot?
> often he had to stay at home because I knew
> taking him out in public would be a bad idea
> when I knew other dogs would be there.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
> Celeste
CuriHOWES AIN'T IT, that EVERY WON of your dog
lover pals GOT THE SAME SAME SAME SAME PROBLEM
for the SAME SAME SAME SAME REASON, spot.
Wed,Feb 9 2005 9:49 pm
Subject: Re: House breaking the boyfriend,
there's going to be a fight!
HOWEDY spot,
Your idiotic questions and vindictiveness towards your
boy toy doesn't even deserve dignifyin it with a answer.
Your DEAD DOG Barny DIED from STRESS INDUCED
AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE on accHOWENT of YOU
ABUSED HIM ALL HIS LIFE as DEMONSTRATED in
your own posted case history:
From: "Spot" <NoSpa...@verizon.net>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:32:19 GMT
Subject: Re: Help from any vet or anyone who's been through this.
Philip,
I don't have a problem with giving him Deramaxx. He's
been on it for two years the only reason we took him off
it was due to the cancer.
NOTHING is going to cure the cancer this is the 3rd round
the mast cell cancer he has had and this is completely
inoperable and I will not put him through chemo or radiation.
I am more interested in his quality of life for the remainder
of his life. He has for years taken glucosamine & condroiten
supplements with the approval of his orthpedic vet.
Barney has had ACL surgery on both is knees and has extensive
arthritis no supplement will ever give him total complete pain
relief and I sure am not willing to use something for a month
waiting for it to work.
---------------------------
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAAA!!!
YOUR DOG'S DEAD on accHOWENT of you abused him.
Tell it to ed w of PETLOSS.CON or "lighteningstrike",
dog abusin coward lying mental cases they are... you'll
be in EXXXCELLENT company.
Your dog had two acl surgeries on accHOWET
of YOU ABUSED HIM:
"I've been through this with Barney he has had both his
repaired and it was well worth the expense. Yes he has
arthritis but it's not near as bad as it would have been
if I hadn't had it done right away.
Celeste
HERE'S HOWE COME:
Date: 23 Jan 2005 08:21:07 -0800
Subject: Re: How Do I Handle Her?
HOWEDY spot,
From: "Spot" <NoSpa...@verizon.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005
Subject: Re: How Do I Handle Her?
> I have always used a no-pull halter
That's a choking harness, spot. Dogs DON'T LIKE
GETTIN CHOKED no matter HOWE you call it, spot.
> and it works like a charm.
It HURTS and INTIMDIATES your dog and teaches IT
to FEAR you HURTING HIM someMOORE, spot.
> You can find them at Walmart sometimes and
> most any pet store will carry them.
Yeah. But you won't find ANY intelligent kindly
dog owners using them, spot. ONLY DOG ABUSERS
HURT INTIMDIATE and MURDER innocent critters
and try to get HOWET callin THAT, trainin.
> It's a collar the 2 D rings at the bottom and a
> Yshaped piece at the top. There are 2 other
> padded strips of cording where you slide one
> under each leg from the top Y connector and
> attach to the individual D rings below. The top
> piece of these slide through the Y at the top
> and leash attaches to the top.
>
> Basically when the dog pulls it tightens and puts
> pressuer under the legs.
And they LIKE THAT, do they, spot?
> The dogs don't like the pressure
Ohhh. HOWE COME?
> and it throws them off balance as they pull harder.
And that's to teach the dog to naturally want to be
with you every place you go, is that correct, spot?
> They soon learn not to pull.
That so, spot?
Your dog AIN'T PULLIN on accHOWENT of
you're HURTING HIM. Take off your choking
harness and your dog will pull. Take off your
leash and your dog will RUN HOWET ON YOU
on accHOWENT of you're a dog abusing punk
thug coward mental case.
REMEMBER, spotty?
> I had tried everything out there to walk Barney
You mean you TRIED EVERY THING TO HURT YOUR DOG, spot.
> and nothing else would ever work.
Oh. THAT'S on accHOWENT of there AIN'T NO
APUPRIATE WAY TO HURT and INTIMIDATE
your dog, spot. THAT'S HOWE COME DOGS
GO NUTS and GET DEAD, spot.
> He would constantly pull me
On accHOWENT of you was CONSTANTLY
TRYING TO CHOKE HIM, spot.
> once I found these halters the whole walking
> experience was a joy.
That so?:
"The dogs don't like the pressure and it throws
them off balance as they pull harder."
> Celeste
And THAT'S HOWE COME you CANNOT TRAIN your dog.
And THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ
"when you post here abHOWETS The Amazing Puppy
Wizard will QUOTE YOU and leave you F'd OFF for
the last of your dignity and self respect IF you
EVER THOUGHT you EVER had any to begin with."
The Amazing Puppy Wizard <); ~ ) >
IfMyFriendsCould...@i-love-dogs.com
spam...@gmail.com wrote:
> Wow. There are some real fruitcakes on this newsgroup,
Yeah. IMAGINE comin in here abHOWETS an askin QUESTIONS
abHOWET dog behavior problems that the lyin dog abusing
punk thug coward active acute chronic long term incurable
MENTAL CASES GOT with their own dogs an CAN'T TRAIN???
That'd be INSANE, wouldn't it spam.rick <{); ~ ) >
> but fortunately there are some sane helpful people too.
Yeah. They told you to BOARD your dog.
> I think I will go with Melinda's advice.
You mean to turn the dogs loose in the backyard
with plenty of supervision and put a stop to any
aggression that happens.
> If things don't go well
Then the dogs will get HURT. LUCKY THING you can DEAL with THAT.
> and it is going to be too difficult to make sure the dogs get along,
It'll take you abHOWET WON HOWER of STUDY and
abHOWET twenty minutes of PRACTICE doin the
techniques and maybe WON HOWER of TRAINING your
dog and she'll naturally want to DO ANY THING
you ask, includin NOT BE AFRAID of the other dog.
> then we'll separate them for the night and
> make alternative arrangements.
Yeah, you can AVOID a BAD situation by
NOT DOIN sumpthin that MAY BE RISKY.
> I'm prepared to tolerate a small scuffle if nobody
> gets badly injured and Roxy quickly learns what
> behaviour is required of her.
You think she's gonna learn THAT by gettin turned
HOWET into a yard the other dog lives at an has had
a RECORD OF ATTACKING OPPOSITE SEX DOGS, the MOST
UNNATURAL THING IN The WHOWEL WILD WORLD for a critter
to do EXXXCEPT maybe the Preyin Mantis or Black Widow
or maybe sumpthin SUFFERIN from a BRAIN TUMOR.
> I would rather this didn't happen though.
Yeah. But you WON'T STUDY your own FREE COPY of The
Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual on accHOWENT of it'll make you FEEL like
you been ABUSIN your dog all her life and your kids an
SP-HOWES no DHOWET to boot.
The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard don't mean NUTHIN
PERSONAL. Just makin a OBSERVATION. AGAIN <{); ~ ) >
> We'll keep everything closely supervised, and put
> a stop to any inappropriate behaviour immediately.
RIGHT. And THAT'S HOWE COME DOGS ATTACK EACH OTHER.
BWEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!
Hey? You wanna TALK BUSINESS or do you wanna report
your mental heelth CASE HISTORY here so we'll know
HOWE COME you can't stop bein a Nazi <{); ~ ) >
> What we won't do is put her in kennels for
> any longer than a few days.
Not meanin to be PERSONAL, but HOWE long are you fixin
to be freeloadin off your kin when you git there <{); ~ ) >
> I appreciate that possibly some owners and dogs
> are able to tolerate longer stays in kennels,
The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard grew up in a full service kennel.
> and that many kennels provide an excellent service.
INDEEDY. HOWEver, caring for other people's dogs
takes a degree of SKILLS which may or may not be
suited for an individual simply on accHOWENT of
they like critters <{); ~ ) >
> Here in Wales we have used a small independent kennels who
> only take a small number of dogs who they usually already know.
Too bad you're leavin them. It's hard to find a good kennel
especially for giant breed dogs and kats birdies and STUFF.
> The dogs get personal attention and because we know them
> we trust them to allow our dog to play and exercise with
> other dogs when appropriate.
CuriHOWES AIN'T IT HOWE the kennel is able to
work your dog with other dogs with NO PROBLEMO.
> As I say though,
"I'm prepared to tolerate a small scuffle if nobody
gets badly injured and Roxy quickly learns what
behaviour is required of her."
> we would never put her in kennels for a long period,
> because to the dog her life is with us, and when she
> is away from us she gets anxious,
Separation anXXXIHOWESNESS is CAUSED BY over
CON-TROLL not separation and can therefor be
CURED NEARLY INSTANTLY <{); ~ ) >
LIKE THIS:
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.
From: Hoku Beltz
To: The Puppy Wizard
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Mahalo
Aloha Jerry,
Just wanted to let you know that the surrogate toy
technique is working wonders. I have not had a
shredded sheet for over a week now. It is nice
to be able to leave the bed made and come home
to a made bed.
Your program is awesome, but you already know
that. Keep up the good work!
Hoku
=================
"Hoku Beltz" <h...@rsphawaii.com> wrote in message
news:SN2k9.45447$V7.10...@twister.socal.rr.com...
Aloha Sunny,
Just follow the training program to the letter, no matter how
insignificant some of the step seem to be and your pupy will
be a very well behaved dog in a few days.
I would seriously consider backing out of the training classes
as they will conflict with the Wit's End principles.
I went the training route first, and still had problems until I
found Wits' End. Now I have two "new and improved" dogs.
You won't be dissapointed if you follow the program.
Good luck,
Hoku
==================
From: Chris Williams (k9ap...@webtv.net)
Subject: Re: Thank you Jerry Howe
Date: 2002-03-26 08:16:19 PST
Engrossing account, Anthony. Our best to Angel
and your family.
A friend, who socializes the kittens I've taken
from a feral cat colony, is using the DDR.
She reports far fewer panic problems than
she's had before.
============================
Chris Williams writes:
"The FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual
I do find valuable. Much of it I recognize as what
I've always done without thinking of it as "training".
New stuff, I've used. His anchoring technique erased
the last of Mac's fireworks trauma,"
====================
Dave Cohen <coh...@total.net writes:
Re: Barking Deterrants Needed...
Hi.
Please understand that I do not know Jerry and have
spoken with him briefly once by email.
I have no stake or interest in the success of his business.
I simply want to thank him publicly for one of his tips, with
regards to separation anxiety.
I thought it seemed far fetched to praise a stuffed animal
and then say good bye to my own dog, but I am usually a
very open minded person, so I tried it. Well, lo and behold-
the damn trick worked!
I think Jerry has some intriguing techniques, and
personally I think everyone who constantly criticizes
him is not understanding his logic.
Thank you Jerry!
******************
> however good the kennels are.
Don't forget, dogs is animals, spam.rick <{); ~ ) >
They was BUILT to live HOWEtside. Of curse you gotta
watch HOWET for their tolerance for a climate change
if there is WON.
> Her welfare is our responsibility, and she is part of the family.
Yeah.
> I don't think much of people who insist that their way
> of treating their dogs is the *only way* to treat dogs.
Would it make any difference if you SEE CASE HISTORY
DATA PROVIN 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS
for ALL dogs and ALL hanlders and ALL temperament or
behavior problems by simply DOIN EVERY THING EXXXACTLY
PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE you been taught to handle
your dog?
> Our dog is far from perfectly trained
He COULD BE in just a few minutes if you do
EVERY THING EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE of
HOWE you been taught by the EXXXPERTS <{); ~ ) >
> (we got her from the city pound when she was
> 6 months old and had some behaviour problems),
IMAGINE?
> but she's a happy dog
Perhaps you mean hyperactive.
> who gets plenty of love and exercise.
Most of HOWER EXXXPERTS EXXXCESSIVELY EXXXORCISE
their dog to EXXXPIATE their hyperactive behaviors.
> IMO none of the miracle dog training methods work miracles.
RIGHT. THAT'S on accHOWENT of:
"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs
AND ALL BEHAVIORS
ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your Own FREE Copy Of The Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,"
The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
> A lot of them have some good ideas,
CITES PLEASE?
LIKE THIS:
ballzde...@gmail.com wrote:
> Well I am happy to reply that so far after 10
> minutes of work and the cans from mr Howes guide,
You mean The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual <{); ~ ) >
> I have instilled the "come" command to Riley.
Good. You mean INSTALLED the come command as
a conditional reflex. Be SHORE to perform the
EXXXORCISES four times in each of four locations.
> He is an extremley smart dog, I have never had
> to go to the third or fourth try.
-------------
From: "BarbnBeau" <bdea...@cogeco.ca>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 01:52:30 -0500
Re: Puppy Wizard's Website
Hi Buzzsaw
Not a Thing to lose ...But a Lot To Gain!!
I can only speak from my experience.. I have a 8 month
old miniature poodle, and although I had done some basic
training with him we had a few barking issues ..ugh
I am happy to tell you, I contacted Jerry at the email
addy I posted and he was so great! I wasn't following
the technique precisely but he helped me get back on track.
Beau is doing sooooo well it is really a thrill working
with him, and seeing the remarkable changes.
Now I can ask for "recall" (come) both on and off lead
and it is immediate!
the first time I ask.
Best of Luck to you,
Remember if you need help or explanation contact Jerry ..
he will be more than happy to help anyway he can.
Cheers
Barb
------------------
Date: 5/22/03 11:24:35 PM Eastern
Daylight Time
From: p...@cfl.rr.com
To: Witsend...@aol.com
Well, let me tell you, your Wits' End
Dog Training Method works.
My dog, Dasie, Loves to chase chameleons
around the barbecue on the patio. I
used this system on four different occasions.
When she went out today, she looked
everywhere else but the barbecue.
Amazing, just amazing.
I will write to Amanda about the video.
I am really excited to learn more, and
understand. Maybe just a little reassurance
that I am going about it the right way.
Thanks again
Paul
----------------
Hi, Jerry.
I'm not sure that I'm a 100% convert, or that I agree
with (or even understand) 100% of what you say in this
manual ... BUT ... we had "come" down pat in a few
reps and you could have knocked me down when I tried
the exercise with "drop" and, after a few reps in
different spots Darwin practically *threw* the rubber
ball at my feet on command. He's still not perfect
(just a pup, after all, and he's stubborn enough to
want to push and test me a little bit more).
For what it's worth, I can see (as no doubt you have)
how your usenet manner is likely to rankle a few
folks, but that woman who advocates ear pulling and
beating with sticks deserves everything she gets. Even
if that was the only method that would work, I'd live
with my dog not fetching rather than do any of that.
(Darwin fetches enthusiastically and instinctively,
tho').
Best,
ben
----------
"Dan Moore" <mooret...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote in message
news:fS2Lc.114567$OB3....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.
Tracy,
What worked for me, in just one storm,
was to praise the dog after each clap
of thunder, telling him he's a Good Dog!
This is an almost 13 year old Doberman, BTW.
The next time it thundered, he did not even
react at all--you could not tell it was the same
dog as before.
There was more thunder just the other day,
and same thing, nada, nothing, zilch, no
cowering, whimpering, trying to hide at all,
it was that simple.
I got this idea from Jerry Howe, who might seem
to be a "wild and crazy" character, but his non-
abusive way of handling dogs WORKS.
Wonderfully.
Praise.
It's that simple.
Juanita
---------------
AND LIKE THIS:
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 9:06 AM
Hello.
I never posted here (or anywhere) before.
I never trained or owned a dog before this
year.
I downloaded the Wit's End, read it, corresponded
with Mr. Howe and trained my dog to come and to
stop barking in a weekend.
Our dog, Jake, had been treated with kindness the
whole time we had him, about 10 months, but his
earlier life is unknown.
I worked on the hot-cold exercise for about 30
minutes when he suddenly "got it". After that
he came to me every time with no hesitation.
I used the cans filled with pennies to teach him
not to bark. If he now starts to bark, I go to the
door or window, say "Good Boy, its' alright" and
he usually calms down right away.
A couple of times I had to get the cans
out again to reinforce the behavior.
We feel a strong bond with this animal
and he is very eager to accept our love.
So with all the vitriolic spewing going on,
I have to believe Mr. Howe is right.
His method worked for us.
I don't know if it would have been quite
as effective if we had tried another method first.
Florence
--------------
AND LIKE THIS:
From: "Ray" <mikeflemi...@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:41:46 GMT
Subject: re: Jerry Howe
Jerry, I will say this. You catch alot of flak in
this newsgroup and I've been peeping in here for 4
months since I got my Mastiff. I don't know you or
pretend to know you but the things that I've tried
that you've suggested HAS worked.
I've had dogs in the past that I bribed with food
and even spanked with a newspaper and honestly,
that didn't work.
The pack exercise worked, and getting my dog to
come to me is no problem after I used your exercise.
All of this WITHOUT food treats.
Even the "non-physical" praise was foreign to me, but
I see why it's a good idea. I can honestly tell that
this dog is more in tune with me and what I want him
to do and how our relationship should work.
Just wanted to say Thanks, and I may need your help
on a few more issues as they arise, like the border
training.
------------
AND LIKE THIS:
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For Dealing With This
(Destructive Separation Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite
A Few Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME The Very First
Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33 Years Experience.
---------------
AND LIKE THIS:
"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry. Your Method
Takes Positive Training To The Next Level And Should Really
Be Used By All Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce, Professional
Trainer, 30 Years Experience.
-----------------
AND LIKE THIS 12 YEAR OLD DOG:
<robin4...@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:04:50 -0700
Subject: Puppy Wizard - Report, Day Two
Success!
I left for about 25 minutes, and when I returned
and walked thru the front door - no dog standing
there waiting for me! No barking, no whimpering -
no anything.
In fact, no dog!
I got worried, looking all over for her. I found
her asleep (yes, asleep!!!!) on a pile of clothing
that was on the floor in my second bedroom.
I left a tape recorder running while I was gone, but,
without realizing it, I had it set to Voice Activation -
and it hadn't been activated! I don't think she made a
sound while I was gone.
I almost feel ready to give it a big test - leave her
at home while I go to a movie, which I haven't been
able to do since I got her a little over one year ago.
Both times I employed your technique over the last couple
of days, I did so at night. Just because I need to satisfy
myself that this is real, I'm going to leave during the day
for awhile. I know you'll say it won't make any difference,
but gotta do it, gotta test it, gotta assure myself that this
is real.
Robin
Just wanted to let you know that the surrogate toy
technique is working wonders. I have not had a shredded
sheet for over a week now. Robin.
------------------
> but the most important thing as far as I can see
> is that you treat your doggy companion with respect
> (and vice-versa) and that you have a good time together.
"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
as separate, not the wise.
If any man knows one, he enjoys the fruit of both.
The level which is reached by wisdom
is attained
through right action as well.
He who perceives that the two are one knows the truth."
"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.
What is the use of compulsion then?
The love and hate which are aroused
by the objects of sense arise from Nature,
do not yield to them.
They only obstruct the path," -
- Bhagavad Gita, adapted by
Krishna with permission from
His FREE copy of The Puppy
Wizard's FREE Wits' End Dog
Training Method manual <{) ; ~ ) >
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
"Speech is a mirror of the soul:
as a man speaks,
so is he."
Publilius Syrus, First century B.C., Maxim 1073
"We are what we do."
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
>Paul B wrote:
>> While the concept of shake cans is not new,
>> I haven't read any other advice that says to
>> praise immediately regardless of what the dog
>> does next (the common advice is to praise once
>> the dog is doing a desired behaviour or at least
>> stopped the unwanted behaviour), this is unique
>> to Jerry (and Marilyn) and from my own experiences
>> is an important part of the process.
And how do we know this aspect of his advice is right?
Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
--Marshall
---------------
"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>
wrote in message news:9ihtee$7ib$1...@uwm.edu...
From: Paul B (NOSPAMpand...@zfree.co.nz)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 00:13:28 PST
Hello Marshall,
The way I view it from my observation of how
my dogs react is that the distraction interrupts
the dogs thought, not for good or bad, just
interrupts, the dog is therefore distracted for
a second and then will either continue the
behaviour or do something else.
The praise reassures the dog that the sound
distraction is not a threat or punishment,
however if everytime the dog resumes a
particular behaviour it's distracted immediately
(and praised immediately for reassurance) then
it quickly decides this behaviour is not fulfilling
and it ceases.
A dog will offer another behaviour in it's place
and if that is acceptable to us then we let it be
otherwise the distraction continues until a suitable
alternate behaviour is offered.
One example, Sam used to jump up on me
when I arrived home, I would shake can to
distract him right at the moment he was
about to jump up, after about 4 repetitions
he tried sitting and offering me his paw, of
course this was fine so I let it be.
While the concept of shake cans is not new,
I haven't read any other advice that says to
praise immediately regardless of what the
dog does next (the common advice is to
praise once the dog is doing a desired
behaviour or at least stopped the unwanted
behaviour), this is unique to Jerry (and Marilyn)
and from my own experiences is an important
part of the process.
> Thanks Paul! He does recommend praising
> a dog for barking, but he appears to recognize
> that this may not work and so distraction
> is recommended as a back up procedure:
> There really is NOTHING new about the advice above!
Nuthin EXXXCEPT HOWE IT'S DONE, professor.
> Sound distraction may be understood in
> terms of the more general behavior analytic
> approach as follows.
> The distracting stimulus
Like a SCRUFF SHAKE, professor?
> evokes a behavior that is incompatible with barking.
You mean like SCREAMING "NO!" into ITS face for 5 seconds?
> The dog engages in some other behavior
NO, professor SCRUFF SHAKE.
THAT AIN'T HOWE IT WORKS.
> and then is reinforced (if praise functions as a reinforcer).
NO, professor. You don't UNDERSTAND the METHOD.
> --Marshal
"If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
and you will know each other.
If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
and what you do not know you will fear.
What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George
LIKE THIS:
"Estel J. Hines" <ejhi...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:w86dna9lBfN...@comcast.com...
Until i read the Jerry method of Bark
reduction, it went something like this
with our 11 month old puppy "Yoshi"
Yoshi: Bark, bark,
us: HUSH Youshi
Yoshi Bark, bark..........
us: Hush Youshi
Yoshi BARK, BARK, BARK, ......
it stopped when Yoshi got tired barking
We decided to try the Jerry method:
Yoshi: BARK, BARK
US: GOOD Yoshi, Good Boy, who is it?
Yoshi Bark, Bark
US: It's ok, good boy Yoshi, We know them.
Yosh without fail, now stops after we say that.
I must say, it is so much more fun, when we
can praise him, to deal with things like this.
Thanks Jerry
ps: We are just starting to go thru the Jerry
Papers, and learn how to live with our son
"Yoshi", whom we love very much. --
Best Regards,
Estel J. Hines
-----------
AND LIKE THIS:
HOWEDY Brandy,
"Brandy Kurtz" <KraftyKur...@wmconnect.com> wrote in message
news:2f66e35d.04073...@posting.google.com...
Well I just printed out the Amazing Puppy
Wizard info, so I haven't actually started
to train yet.
Today a salesman knocked on the door,
and Pokey was going balisstic. I calmly
go to the window to see who it is, and
off-handly say Good Boy, It's a stranger,
Good Boy. Pokey shut right up, gave me
a quizical look, and came and sat beside
my feet!
OMG, I could not believe it!
I was totally floored, as this has been his
behavior since a pup. Just wanted to update,
and Pokey and I are hitting the sack...;)
Brandy
--------------
And LIKE THIS:
"Dan Moore" <mooret...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote in message
news:fS2Lc.114567$OB3....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.
Tracy,
What worked for me, in just one storm,
was to praise the dog after each clap
of thunder, telling him he's a Good Dog!
This is an almost 13 year old Doberman, BTW.
The next time it thundered, he did not even
react at all--you could not tell it was the same
dog as before.
There was more thunder just the other day,
and same thing, nada, nothing, zilch, no
cowering, whimpering, trying to hide at all,
it was that simple.
I got this idea from Jerry Howe, who might seem
to be a "wild and crazy" character, but his non-
abusive way of handling dogs WORKS.
Wonderfully.
Praise.
It's that simple.
Juanita
------------------
--Marshall
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
P.S. Contacting Dr. P:
P.P.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
--Marshall Dermer
=====================
<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>
Robert Crim writes:
>Terri
===========
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
From: Momi...@webtv.net (misty)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:29:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?
Beth wrote:
> So, jerry's techniques didnt' work for Peach?
Never had a chance to try them on her... I was still
using the e-fence and chains to keep her in the yard.
The suggestions I received here to keep Peach home were:
build a fence... wasn't going to happen.. we plan on
putting a modular home here within the next few years...
put more fence at the top of the pen I used so both dogs
could play bitey face w/o tangling, and similar suggestions.
Jerry was the only one to mention border training... but he
was kook supreme ;-P So I ignored him... no killfiles with
webtv.. at that time Jerry had his own troll, somewhat like
Candace, so the group was not very conducive to learning anything.
At one point I even b*tched about Jerry.
By the time I tried out Jerry's manual
Peach had already ran away.
Not very good at the google groups search but you'll find my
first post at "runaway dog message 30" within that thread
is mention of the dogs taking off and being gone for 2 days.
I stopped posting for a bit... my middle boy was devastated
that his dog was gone... Zelda came home but not her mom.
The next few posts from me were ones about/to Jerry.
Then Jerry made the WETM accessible for webbes, I put it
in my e-mail (no storage otherwise on webby unless you put
stuff on a webpage) and read it, read it and read it.
Once I understood what the concept was, I implemented it
on Zelda. It worked and I now have a great housedog!
I only regret that my own distrust of Jerry caused me to
lose another wonderful dog. Peach was an absolute gem with
little kids. I and my boys still miss her. Sometimes I
still look to see if she came home when we get back from trips.
Maybe Peach would still have ran away... I don't know
and never will....
~misty
------------
"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net wrote in message news
16990-3CAB1F8...@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...
I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know she's
not here with us. I really can't blame anyone here for her
loss.
I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because of
how you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the idea
that my using a shock collar could have any bearing on
Peach not wanting to stay home.
Up until I started using it my main concern had been
keeping my dogs in their own yard.
Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my concern
became how to keep them from running off for days on end.
I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in the
anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.
I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world now <g>
A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely housetrained,
doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard, and doesn't bark all
the time.
IOW a great companion and friend.
Thanks Jerry!
---------------
misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6...@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net.
We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two
dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars.
Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come
back in the yard and would run for days.
The last time, Peach didn't come back home.
I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train
my dog. She is now border trained. A few minutes each day
reinforces her desire to stay in the yard.
She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop her from
chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we walk around
the yard.
I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the
e-fence and its collars. If you can't get a regular fence
then you need to train your dog.
I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog
in our yard again.
The price was too high:-( ~misty
--------------------------------
"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:12208-3BB...@storefull-234.iap.bryant.webtv.net.
Hi Cathy!
Yes I used The Wits End Method to train my girl, Zelda.
You can check the archives and see I'm a real person..
I post in misc.kids.breastfeeding, alt.cats rec.pets.cats.annecdotes
(not lately, my kitty died) rec.pets.dogs.behavior rec.pets.birds and
a ton of webtv firewalled ngs.
Zelda and her mom, Peach (RB) both loved to run the
neighborhood with my neighbors 2 male dogs. An e-fence
couldn't keep them home, chains pulled up and Peach could
jump/climb a 5 ft. fence.
I wrote in here for advice and felt like Jerry had jumped
down my throat. Upon re-reading his post to me..well..it
hit home hard that I was being abusive to my dog.
The thought of shocking my dog ever again makes me
want to puke.
Like I've said before... I might not like the way Jerry
treats some of the other posters but he gave me ( for _free_)
a way to teach myself and my dog.
I can let Zelda outside and not worry that a potty break
will mean she'll be gone for 2 days or, worse yet, not ever
come home...like her mom.
Zelda stopped chewing everything in sight once I started
applying Jerry's methods. One time of "bad slipper!" and
she never chewed another one up :-D
I don't post here a lot because I don't ave any problems
needing solved. I do join in occasionally or post informative
lnks. I just feel that my limited experience precludes me
from jumping in every thread <shrug> but I do read all of them.
If you want my phone number, e-mail me. We would have to
set up a time because I'm on the webbie a lot and we only
have 1 phone line.
~misty
=============
The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
spam...@gmail.com
something like this, if neccessary.
scfundogs
news:dv3vns$mn7$1...@panix2.panix.com...
>
> I generally handle it out in the fenced yard. I go out
> there with the new dog and give him time for a pee and a
> poop, to stretch a bit, and decompress from the trip. Then
> I let the old dogs join him.
That's what I normally do also. In the event that my dog was on a long
flight and arriving at a new house though I'd probably hold off on intros
until the following day. That way the traveling dog gets a decent night's
sleep and some time to de-stress.
> Nobody's on a leash - the dogs
> need to be able to do the dog socialization thing without
> having their movement hindered.
I'm not that brave but then I usually didn't have help when I arrived with a
new dog. I have some 2' leashes that I liked because they could hang on the
dog loosely, not hindering the dog, yet provide me with something to grab
(and possibly tie off) should the need arise.
> However, the dogs are
> heavily supervised and any inappropriate behavior is stopped
> immediately.
I also find that having a garden hose with a good spray nozzle to help
bolster my confidence. I don't know about the breeds in question but Boxers
aren't fond of water and a good spray to the snout should two dogs start to
get out of line will help put some distance between them.
--
Tara
Melinda Shore
scfundogs <scfu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I'm not that brave but then I usually didn't have help when I arrived with a
>new dog.
I never do, but dog body language is complicated and I don't
want to interfere with it unless it's a problem. Slick
introduced himself to pretty much all the other dogs by
shoving his head over their shoulders, which wasn't much
appreciated.
>I also find that having a garden hose with a good spray nozzle to help
>bolster my confidence. I don't know about the breeds in question but Boxers
>aren't fond of water and a good spray to the snout should two dogs start to
>get out of line will help put some distance between them.
One of the benefits of holding all participants responsible
when there's a brawl is that if there are issues with a new
dog the "old" dogs will listen to me and stand down even if
the new dog is the one behaving badly.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
Rocky
> I generally handle it out in the fenced yard. I go out
> there with the new dog and give him time for a pee and a
> poop, to stretch a bit, and decompress from the trip.
That's exactly how I introduce new client dogs around here. I
also give them lots of time to smell the other dogs' scents.
> Then
> I let the old dogs join him.
Depending on the new dog, I'll either bring out Friday or Rocky,
though usually Friday because Rocky's is way too people-friendly
and pays too much attention to the new humans.
> Nobody's on a leash - the dogs
> need to be able to do the dog socialization thing without
> having their movement hindered. However, the dogs are
> heavily supervised and any inappropriate behavior is stopped
> immediately.
Sometimes my "voice of god" startles human and dog, especially
when the human didn't see the inappropriate behaviour.
> In general I wouldn't leave them alone
> unsupervised together. I'd also give some thought right now
> to how you're going to handle feeding.
Crates.
scfundogs
>
> One of the benefits of holding all participants responsible
> when there's a brawl is that if there are issues with a new
> dog the "old" dogs will listen to me and stand down even if
> the new dog is the one behaving badly.
Yes but we don't know if the OP's in-laws have that kind of
relationship/control with their dogs. That's why I suggested a garden hose.
--
Tara
Melinda Shore
scfundogs <scfu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Yes but we don't know if the OP's in-laws have that kind of
>relationship/control with their dogs. That's why I suggested a garden hose.
Absolutely, but with a bunch of dogs when there's a scuffle
there's a tendency for everybody to pile on, even the very
retiring dogs (or perhaps I should say "especially the very
retiring dogs"). It's much better to have n-1 dogs back
down than it is to have an n-dog fight.
Part of this, of course, is that I don't have running water
in my yard (unless you count those times the creek pops its
banks). But I have to say that I like having dogs that will
listen to me even in the middle of a kerfluffle.
scfundogs
> In article <47oge2F...@individual.net>,
>
> It's much better to have n-1 dogs back
> down than it is to have an n-dog fight.
Very true.
> But I have to say that I like having dogs that will
> listen to me even in the middle of a kerfluffle.
That's ideal and I *believe* I'm finally there with Fancy. The first 2
years I wasn't. She was not only highly reactive but she was often the one
instigating another dog's response which she then reacted to.
Bringing home a foster was always fun but I only ever had to use the hose
once. I could keep her from stepping too far out of line but only just so
and I often had to repeat myself and put her in timeout.
--
Tara
AnimalBehaviorForensicSc...@hotmail.com
socially, morally, ethically challenged insufficent, stiffled,
stunted, abused, abuser, tara o. aka tee of Boxer Rescue of NC,
you lyin dog abusing punk thug coward active acute chronic long
term incurable mental case,
scfundogs wrote:
> "Melinda Shore" <sh...@panix.com> wrote in message
> news:dv3vns$mn7$1...@panix2.panix.com...
> >
> > I generally handle it out in the fenced yard. I go out
> > there with the new dog and give him time for a pee and a
> > poop, to stretch a bit, and decompress from the trip. Then
> > I let the old dogs join him.
>
> That's what I normally do also.
That so? What you NORMALLY do is MURDER dogs you
can't force and intimidate into submission.
> In the event that my dog was on a long flight and
> arriving at a new house though I'd probably hold
> off on intros until the following day. That way
> the traveling dog gets a decent night's sleep and
> some time to de-stress.
Yeah. Bein locked in a box for a few HOWERS really tires dogs HOWET.
> > Nobody's on a leash - the dogs need to be able
> > to do the dog socialization thing without having
> > their movement hindered.
That's curiHOWES ain't it.
> I'm not that brave but then I usually didn't have help
> when I arrived with a new dog. I have some 2' leashes
> that I liked because they could hang on the dog loosely,
> not hindering the dog, yet provide me with something to
> grab (and possibly tie off) should the need arise.
Then HOWE COME you MURDERED your own
DEAD DOG Tyson for the same reason?
> > However, the dogs are heavily supervised
> > and any inappropriate behavior is stopped
> > immediately.
Yeah. THAT'S HOWE COME THEY CAN'T BE TRUSTED ON THEIR OWN.
> I also find that having a garden hose with a good
> spray nozzle to help bolster my confidence.
You mean, bein as you're a MENTAL CASE.
> I don't know about the breeds in question but Boxers
> aren't fond of water and a good spray to the snout
> should two dogs start to get out of line will help
> put some distance between them.
And if THAT don't work you just MURDER them.
LIKE THIS:
HOWEDY tara o. aka tee,
Tee wrote:
> "buzzsaw" <t-...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:EPadnZ2dnZ0ZiDSHnZ2dn...@comcast.com...
> > Max is a large 2yr old male mix (Great Dane, Ridgeback, Lab
<snip idiocy>
> > I am not sure what is causing this or how to correct.
timmy will have to stop HURTING and INTIMIDATING his dog.
> > Any ideas is appreciated.
> Wow, he looks extremely "bully" in the face.
BWEEEEEEEEEEHAHAHAHHAAA!!! You FEAR dogs. THAT'S
WHY you jerk and choke them on pronged spiked
pinch choke collars and lock them in boxes and
spray aversives in their faces and shock them.
> His eyes remind me of a chocolate Pit that
> lives a few houses down.
SCARY, ain't it.
> There's on-leash aggression, general aggression,
> big-dog aggression, little dog aggression, same
> gender aggression, intact vs neutered aggression,
> etc.
You forgot CHILD aggression like your own DEAD DOG
Summer had for the same same same same reason timmy's
dog is FEAR AGGRESSIVE of dogs, tara o. aka tee.
> From what I've understood
YOUR MURDERED YOUR OWN DEAD DOG Summer
and your new dog Joe Joe attacks your
ALPHA BITCH Fancy and pisses on her
and all over your house and you couldn't
train him not to do that even with your
shock collar and professional shock collar
lessons, just a few weeks ago. REMEMBER?
> the kind of aggression you're seeing is
> fear-based rather than dominance based.
THAT'S INSANE. That's HOWE you RATIONALIZE
and JUSTIFY MURDERING your own DEAD DOG
Summer.
> Something about another animal being bigger
> than him sets him off. That's just from my
> reading and its not to say it can't be dominance
> related.
You mean like your dog Joe Joe pissin on Fancy?
Or do you mean like professora melanie's little
DOMINANCE PISSING Papillion, tara o. aka tee?
You've got a very long history of hurting
dogs and lying about it and mental illness.
> I think it can be really hard to cure dog-dog aggression,
Takes MINUTES, tara o. aka tee, but you gotta
stop jerking and choking and threatening and
shocking your dogs or you'll MURDER the rest
of 'm. You nearly GOT RID of Joe Joe just a
couple weeks ago. REMEMBER tara o. aka tee?
> especially if you can't 100% nail-down the cause.
THAT'S INSANE.
> Some dog aggression isn't curable IMO
THAT'S INSANE. YOU're INSANE.
> and if your dog is part Pit Bull then this could
> be partly genetic rather than wholly behavioral.
THAT'S INSANE. But that's HOWE COME we got BREED
SPECIFIC LEGISLATION MURDERING INNOCENT DEAD DOGS
like your own DEAD DOG Summer.
> What has your trainer suggested you do in terms
> of practice and desensitization?
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
> --
> Tara
HOWEDY tara o. aka tee,
Tee wrote:
> I have an Innotek IUT-300 UltraSmart remote trainer in hand.
IT AIN'T GONNA MAKE YOU SMART, tara o. aka tee.
> The collar itself goes on today but will not be used
> for several days as I don't want him to make a collar
> association if possible.
Oh goody! You DID get WIZE to the "collar conditioning".
CuriHOWES AIN'T IT, that NOWON HERE HAS EVER MENTIONED
collar conditioning OTHER THAN The Amazing Puppy Wizard
<{); ~ ) >, and YOU DON'T READ HIS POSTS...
> On Saturday
That's TODAY! HURRAY!
> I'm going to set him up to fail so I can use
> the collar and provide him with a few clear
> associations.
Ahhh.
> Joe Joe knows, without doubt, that counter-cruising and
> trash-raiding are unacceptable. I'm going to intentionally
> put something yummy on the counter and make myself visibly
> scarce. I know he'll take the bait. I plan to tone him for
> approaching/thinking about the food and stimulate him for
> touching the food.
Oh. GOOD IDEA! THAT'LL WIZE HIM UP TO THE COLLAR.
BWEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
> Same with the trashcan and I plan to do this until Monday.
You mean, till you BURN him on Monday.
HE WON'T GO NEAR THEM WHILE YOU'RE WATCHIN so YOU
WON'T BE ABLE TO BURN HIM, tara o. aka tee.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!
> The way I see it is that I'm taking something I know
> he has made a "this is NOT allowed" association with
> and providing a nick to accompany it.
You mean a SHOCK, tara o. aka tee. Let's not get TOO technical.
> This way when the marking behavior is addressed he will hopefully:
>
> a) not make a collar association
You mean with the collar that's been "toning" him for a couple days.
> b) know that the correction is a result of
THE RESULT OF YOU HURTIN HIM.
> him doing something inappropriate
Dogs EAT STUFF when they're anXXXIHOWES
and INSECURE, JUST LIKE HOWE YOU DO, with
your bulemia and STUFF.
REMEMBER?
> I have someone local coming by Monday evening just to
> meet Joe Joe and try to figure out the best, least risky
> in terms of possible negative side associations, way to
> handle identifying & association marking Fancy.
Ahhh. EXXXCELLENT! We wouldn't want someWON who
DON'T KNOW HOWE to PUPPERLY HURT a dog to mess
IT up by shockin IT a the wrong time.
> I have websites from Dobbs, Castle, Tritronics and various
> retriever related ecollar articles bookmarked as well as
> some research I did into the archives for conversations
> between Lynn, Amy, Susan F, Trisha, etc.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHHAHAAA!!! ALL THE DOG ABUSERS WHO DON'T
POST HERE ABHOWETS nodoGamenedMOORE, eh tara o. aka tee?
You certainly DID NOT SEE any "COLLAR CONDITIONING"
advice in The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives that
DIDN'T COME FROM The Amazing Puppy Wizard.
> I plan to see if I can find a book or two on e-collar
> training at Barnes & Noble this afternoon. Hopefully
> my efforts in this direction and correct use of the tool
You mean PAIN FEAR and INTIMDIATION.
> will provide the fix we're searching for.
Well tara o. aka tee, the FIX AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN
on accHOWENT of as you REPRESS ANXXXIHOWESNESS
BEHAVIORS those behaviors CHANGE to OTHER, often
worse, seemingly UNRELATED behaviors, like attackin
innocent critters and havin halucinations and OCD
behaviors.
> I hope it also calms any fears some of you
> seem to have about me using an e-collar.
HOWE COME you didn't give THIS OPPORTUNITY to
your own DEAD DOG Summer pryor to MURDERIN her?
> It seems to me the best tool for the job
You mean HURTIN him.
> at this point and that it may be foolish to not try it.
And THAT'S HOWE COME you're BOXER RESCUE of NC.
> --
> Tara
"Psychiatry has yet to validate a single psychiatric
condition/diagnosis as an abornality/disease, or as
anything 'neurological', 'biological', 'chemically
imbalanced' or 'genetic'." Dr. Fred A. Baughman, Neurologist.
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazing...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400
Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.
I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.
There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.
Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology
"Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com wrote in message
news:
I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
I do not know what started the problem but he came
aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
ad I took him with me everywhere.
At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
it was not working on his aggression problem.
I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
working as he was becoming more aggressive.
I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.
I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
have the people stop until he could get in control using
treats, and work on clicker training.
At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
would not come when I called him and would run away when
I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women who
hasn't trained her dog"
I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
responsible for him."
*(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)
As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.
The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
I had been working for 18 months!
Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
can sound and he looked at me like uhn?
I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
-the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
on by.
When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
me like "you must be out of your mind"
The results can make a believer!!!
Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
in a busy shopping area with many dogs.
He just seemed to not notice any one.
When people talked to him or ask his name he would
look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.
I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
enjoy life out in public.
If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.
My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!
I know most people would have given up on him a long time
ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
but only with the right approach-sound and praise.
I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!
================================
From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression
Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.
We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!
We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.
He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!
Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.
I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!
I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.
I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-
- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
until I get his attention with treats.
They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.
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The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{@); ~ } >
Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.
IT AIN'T PRETTY.
<{@); ~ } >